It’s a dissection of why some people in the LGBT community may be offended. If you’re unwilling to try to see the perspective of others and choose to instead reject empathy, that’s a problem for you and the people around you. This internet stranger will continue to have a good day.
Also, clout? On Lemmy? Oh good, I’ve got the support of all 12 of us…
Complicated. Everyone gets to have opinions and some of those opinions are going to offend people. It’s arguably inevitable. The social consequences of having opinions of one kind or another is a pretty standard facet of being human. And validity is non-trivial to define. People have their experiences and they are valid to them but that won’t excuse them from the consequences of having an opinion that is shitty (e.g. “Nazis weren’t that bad” is an opinion that some people honestly hold and also merits a punch in the nose). So my shitty not really answer is “sort of?”.
One caveat (arguably unrelated) is that a lot of people like to state wrong things as opinions (e.g “I think the earth is flat”) and will claim that you can’t refute them because “that’s just my opinion”. It’s not, it’s an objective fact. Those aren’t valid.
Side note: I feel like you’re trying to lead me to something and I approve of your style even though I feel like I’m about to be wrong about something.
I don’t think you see the hypocrisy in your own comments.
I never misunderstood that you’re close minded. I’ll even grant that it can be frustrating to feel like you need a formal course on such things and that it changes entirely too fast and that sometimes it all feels like bullshit (ask me about using the term demisexual wrong* on the internet one time). But the world is made better when we work to understand others, which you’ve demonstrated that as being a non-priority for you.
But the world is made better when we work to understand others, which you’ve demonstrated that as being a non-priority for you.
That’s your interpretation because I don’t agree with you because as a queer person I want to not be told how to use queer words. Thus demonstrating that working to understand others is a non-priority for you.
It’s not since Reddit that I’ve seen anyone engage in such masterful mental gymnastics to completely avoid getting the point. We have at least silver medal material right here.
Just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean I don’t make sense.
No seriously dude. Go talk to some older gay people, particularly men. Try to make some minimal effort to understand why communities who have been beaten to shit by society want to own their language. It’s gotta be something to have never been in that position.
I understand you. Here’s what you don’t understand: queer people are not a monolith. You do not represent all queer people, so stop acting like you do.
I understand that you don’t want to learn. Because that’s what you’re doing. You want to ignore why people don’t want you to say things like that so that the onus isn’t on you to change your behavior because that’s difficult and/or inconvenient. As above, it’s really frustrating to have to learn yet more terms (I still don’t quite get allosexual even though I apparently am that or something along those lines?) and then also to have to break associations with things that haven’t aged well because then you feel obligated to feel bad for making mistakes even if most of the time people don’t care/understand the difficulty.
You want to ignore why people don’t want you to say things like that so that the onus isn’t on you to change your behavior because that’s difficult and/or inconvenient.
You are the one wanting to ignore people here. You are so convinced that only your perspective can be right that you are unwilling to even process the words I write. You don’t have to agree but to willfully ignore that what I’m saying has legitimacy is just disgusting. And I’ve no doubt you don’t even realize your oppression and your own bigotry. Do you?
I’ve read everything you’ve written and it’s all very immature, self-centered, abdication of responsibility paired with conservative level mental gymnastics. You’ve given me no perspective that I, a gay man from a small midwestern town, haven’t personally borne witness to and a little of what I’ve done once upon a time.
I’m not saying your perspective is wrong, I’m saying it’s self centered, lazy, and ultimately detrimental to you and the people around you.
And I’ve no doubt you don’t even realize your oppression and your own bigotry. Do you?
I make no demands upon you so oppression is out. You are free to ignore my observations at any moment and I couldn’t care less. Hell, at this point I’m writing for everyone that’s not you that’s reading this. My statements are based on how your online persona comes across because I don’t know anything about you beyond that to be bigoted against. By definition, I’d have to be prejudiced against you for membership in a particular group to be bigoted and the only one you’ve listed is ‘queer’ and I’m not that self-hating. You are free to be all the negative things that your online persona appears to be. I’m telling you why people may not want to be around you because of your behavior.
I’ve read everything you’ve written and it’s all very immature, self-centered, abdication of responsibility paired with conservative level mental gymnastics.
Explain to me how that’s immature. Explain to me how saying that actually no, I don’t find such talk offensive and neither do my friends is self-centered? Explain to me how something you apparently don’t understand but which is a very real known and well-established phenomena equates to “mental gymnastics”.
You do in fact make demands on me. You demand I submit to your idea of what’s right. You demand that I acknowledge that the claims of these jokes being bigoted are correct. I don’t and I won’t. Worse, you make exactly zero effort to understand why I feel my perspective has legitimacy. You want mental gymnastics? Look no further.
Sure, will do. It can be captured in just this reply.
I don’t find such talk offensive and neither do my friends
This is it in a nutshell. Your anecdote does not capture the full experience of people even in your own community (self centered). I’ve provided the perspective of why it’s offensive and you’ve attempted to shout me down (immature). And even with some regular “no you” responses (also immature).
You do in fact make demands of me
Then your reading comprehension sucks. I stated multiple times (at least once explicitly) that you’re free to be a shit bag. I did not (and at this point do not) expect you to change your behavior.
You make exactly zero effort to understand why I feel my perspective has legitimacy
Was sounding out what your perspective implies about you as a person, while also reflecting on my own troubles with this exact issue, too subtle for you?
It’s a dissection of why some people in the LGBT community may be offended. If you’re unwilling to try to see the perspective of others and choose to instead reject empathy, that’s a problem for you and the people around you. This internet stranger will continue to have a good day.
Also, clout? On Lemmy? Oh good, I’ve got the support of all 12 of us…
Are you part of the community?
I am.
Do you think the perspective of everyone in the community is equally valid?
Complicated. Everyone gets to have opinions and some of those opinions are going to offend people. It’s arguably inevitable. The social consequences of having opinions of one kind or another is a pretty standard facet of being human. And validity is non-trivial to define. People have their experiences and they are valid to them but that won’t excuse them from the consequences of having an opinion that is shitty (e.g. “Nazis weren’t that bad” is an opinion that some people honestly hold and also merits a punch in the nose). So my shitty not really answer is “sort of?”.
One caveat (arguably unrelated) is that a lot of people like to state wrong things as opinions (e.g “I think the earth is flat”) and will claim that you can’t refute them because “that’s just my opinion”. It’s not, it’s an objective fact. Those aren’t valid.
Side note: I feel like you’re trying to lead me to something and I approve of your style even though I feel like I’m about to be wrong about something.
I don’t think you see the hypocrisy in your own comments.
Empathy would be you not trying to tell people what to think and say and being willing to see their perspective.
Hey maybe that’s meaningful to you. It certainly seems to be to many.
I never misunderstood that you’re close minded. I’ll even grant that it can be frustrating to feel like you need a formal course on such things and that it changes entirely too fast and that sometimes it all feels like bullshit (ask me about using the term demisexual wrong* on the internet one time). But the world is made better when we work to understand others, which you’ve demonstrated that as being a non-priority for you.
Then why are you here?
That’s your interpretation because I don’t agree with you because as a queer person I want to not be told how to use queer words. Thus demonstrating that working to understand others is a non-priority for you.
That’s the hypocrisy.
It’s not since Reddit that I’ve seen anyone engage in such masterful mental gymnastics to completely avoid getting the point. We have at least silver medal material right here.
Just because you don’t get it doesn’t mean I don’t make sense.
No seriously dude. Go talk to some older gay people, particularly men. Try to make some minimal effort to understand why communities who have been beaten to shit by society want to own their language. It’s gotta be something to have never been in that position.
I understand you. Here’s what you don’t understand: queer people are not a monolith. You do not represent all queer people, so stop acting like you do.
But it’s ok when you do it?
Please, show me what I said that implies I do. I’ll be here.
I understand that you don’t want to learn. Because that’s what you’re doing. You want to ignore why people don’t want you to say things like that so that the onus isn’t on you to change your behavior because that’s difficult and/or inconvenient. As above, it’s really frustrating to have to learn yet more terms (I still don’t quite get allosexual even though I apparently am that or something along those lines?) and then also to have to break associations with things that haven’t aged well because then you feel obligated to feel bad for making mistakes even if most of the time people don’t care/understand the difficulty.
The sheer arrogance of your comment… wow.
You are the one wanting to ignore people here. You are so convinced that only your perspective can be right that you are unwilling to even process the words I write. You don’t have to agree but to willfully ignore that what I’m saying has legitimacy is just disgusting. And I’ve no doubt you don’t even realize your oppression and your own bigotry. Do you?
I’ve read everything you’ve written and it’s all very immature, self-centered, abdication of responsibility paired with conservative level mental gymnastics. You’ve given me no perspective that I, a gay man from a small midwestern town, haven’t personally borne witness to and a little of what I’ve done once upon a time.
I’m not saying your perspective is wrong, I’m saying it’s self centered, lazy, and ultimately detrimental to you and the people around you.
I make no demands upon you so oppression is out. You are free to ignore my observations at any moment and I couldn’t care less. Hell, at this point I’m writing for everyone that’s not you that’s reading this. My statements are based on how your online persona comes across because I don’t know anything about you beyond that to be bigoted against. By definition, I’d have to be prejudiced against you for membership in a particular group to be bigoted and the only one you’ve listed is ‘queer’ and I’m not that self-hating. You are free to be all the negative things that your online persona appears to be. I’m telling you why people may not want to be around you because of your behavior.
Explain to me how that’s immature. Explain to me how saying that actually no, I don’t find such talk offensive and neither do my friends is self-centered? Explain to me how something you apparently don’t understand but which is a very real known and well-established phenomena equates to “mental gymnastics”.
You do in fact make demands on me. You demand I submit to your idea of what’s right. You demand that I acknowledge that the claims of these jokes being bigoted are correct. I don’t and I won’t. Worse, you make exactly zero effort to understand why I feel my perspective has legitimacy. You want mental gymnastics? Look no further.
That’s pretty fucked up dude.
Good bye.
I’m on phone now so I’ll tone down the length.
Sure, will do. It can be captured in just this reply.
This is it in a nutshell. Your anecdote does not capture the full experience of people even in your own community (self centered). I’ve provided the perspective of why it’s offensive and you’ve attempted to shout me down (immature). And even with some regular “no you” responses (also immature).
Then your reading comprehension sucks. I stated multiple times (at least once explicitly) that you’re free to be a shit bag. I did not (and at this point do not) expect you to change your behavior.
Was sounding out what your perspective implies about you as a person, while also reflecting on my own troubles with this exact issue, too subtle for you?