(mods pls remove post if it violates rules)

TL;DR:

My 19 yo little brother who had a rough childhood (which I unfortunately contributed to) is convinced that Israel’s actions and impunity is because “modern jews run the Western world”. I’ve tried countering this with a historical materialist explanation of Israel’s role in US imperialism to no avail. I suspect my treatment of him in the past may be an obstacle here, and that the key to changing his mind might require an emotional rather than logical approach. Please advise.

=========== Pre-October 7th ===========

We live in the West and grew up in a conservative Muslim family, both male, I’m 24 and he’s 19. We have been pro-palestine since birth. Some channels he watches are Gattsu, Geopold, GDF and Badempanada, doesn’t like Hasan much. He’s not really into socialist politics/history like me but I think he sympathizes, although he has edgy humor which is sometimes borderline centrist/center-right.

He’s a lot better now but as a kid he was really difficult, and my dad and I handled this extremely poorly. I was never physical (unlike sometimes my dad), but I said some putrid shit to him throughout my teens. Regretful shit that makes me stay up at night and breakdown from guilt if I think about too much.

5-6 years ago I mellowed out and thought “man, what the fuck am I doing” and asked him if he wanted to be normal brothers again, to which he enthusiastically agreed. Since then we’ve had a decent relationship and talk about shows, politics, history, movies, uni stuff, etc. We seldom talk about our feelings, and we never processed that traumatic 10 year period when I was a shitty older brother. Despite going through all this he turned out relatively fine, mostly well-adjusted all things considered.

========== Post October 7th ==========

At some point in the past 2 years of genocide, he started believing in ZOG (zionist occupied government), which quickly morphed into “jews run the world”. According to him, “90% of Israeli and US Jews are pedophile rapist murderers”

  1. He thinks that in modern times, Jews control western nations including US through the media, banks, legal institutions etc.
  2. He knows that Zionists != Jews, but says it doesn’t matter to him at this point
  3. Despite my best efforts to explain Israel’s role in US imperialism, he still thinks “the middle east wouldnt be as bad” if not for Israel
  4. I’ve tried explaining that its a symbiosis for US and Israel, and that Israel can’t do anything without green light from US, but he thinks Israel can do whatever they want because they’re blackmailing US politicians with Epstein
  5. He sends me reels of Israeli rabbis saying crazy shit with Havah Nagilah playing in the background
  6. sent me an Amin al-Husseini x Hitler edit (he joked saying how husseini saw the future and wanted to save his people, and that maybe Hitler was right)
  7. His “evidence” includes verses from the talmud condoning pedophilia and other insane things that many religions also say
  8. He thinks Nick Fuentes is funny, and likes that he is “one of the only far-right people who doesn’t utterly despise Muslims/Arabs”

======== Potential solutions =========

Basically I’ve tried explaining with logic why he’s wrong but he won’t budge. I suspect part of it is because I was shitty to him during his formative years so maybe that’s causing some friction. I think the solution will hinge on an emotional approach rather than logical, but I’m not sure what to do.

  • Kras Mazov@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
    10·
    5 days ago

    Ok this is probably gonna be tough but you will need to put a lot of effort into it. The fact you posted it here already shows that you care a lot about your brother and that is great, that is something that you need to make clear (through action, not simply saying it) so he at least understands your intentions are the best.

    So, to start, have you ever talked with him about this bad treatment you did of him in the past at all? I used to take my anger at my brother when we were kids, I won’t list the reasons here for opsec reasons, but it does have to do with me being autistic and the bullying I suffered. I recently talked with my brother about it (we have a good relationship for multiple years now, but the blame still fucked me in the head) and the talk was great and I feel got us a bit closer.

    If you don’t think that is something you can do right now, focus on building a better relationship with him first, then touch on the subject.

    You can also just explicitly tell him you are deeply concerned about all this right win rhetoric he is spouting and that you are genuinely concerned about him and that you want to help him see different. This will only work if you feel you have the type of relationship were he will take it seriously, so weight in if you want to say that.

    edgy humor which is sometimes borderline centrist/center-right

    He’s young, it sucks to have someone close with this type of “humor” but it happens, I unfortunately had some pretty bad “humor” at that age too.

    I’ll try to tackle a few of the numbered points you mentioned. What I can say beforehand is that logic itself is not gonna convince him, the reason for that is that he arrived at his conclusions with logic, deeply flawed and fucked up logic, but logic nonetheless. Simply trying to win arguments and prove someone’s logic wrong is not a way to convince people, I say that from experience. What I have found to work is to present verifiable facts and to try to make the person you’re talking to come to the same conclusion as you on topics they already have a made up mind. Of course, it is different from person to person and when someone asks you to explicitly explain something, but I think it is good to keep this all in mind.

    1. He thinks that in modern times, Jews control western nations including US through the media, banks, legal institutions etc.

    The best way to counter this narrative is to ask him to prove it, and then you need to counter the bs he spouts from this with verifiable information/facts. You also need to question him how that works and find flaws in his argument, you need to deconstruct his view and let him come to the conclusion that argument is flawed and wrong. You do need to be very knowledgeable on all this tho, so if needed, study up, specially the arguments he is mostly liked to spout.

    1. He knows that Zionists != Jews, but says it doesn’t matter to him at this point

    That’s an emotional response and I don’t think you can easily counter this other than by showing him the large footage of pro-Palestinian Jewish people.

    1. Despite my best efforts to explain Israel’s role in US imperialism, he still thinks “the middle east wouldnt be as bad” if not for Israel

    He’s not wrong, but you need to show him how the existence of Israel is a direct result of the west and the US. Proof like the video of Joe Biden admitting that if Israel didn’t exist, the US would need to create an Israel to further US’ interest in the region is probably a great way of showing him that.

    1. He sends me reels of Israeli rabbis saying crazy shit with Havah Nagilah playing in the background

    There’s not much you can do here, the evidence of Israelis saying the most heinous shit imaginable is gigantic. Differentiating these Zionists from Jewish people like I talked before with video proof is probably the best thing you can do in this regard.

    1. sent me an Amin al-Husseini x Hitler edit (he joked saying how husseini saw the future and wanted to save his people, and that maybe Hitler was right)

    Now this is a line he crossed and you need to make that CLEAR. This type of shit cannot pass, you need to tuck at his heartstrings if simply stating it is not enough, you need to show him how bad it is. Show him how Jewish people were not the only ones being target, Romani, Queer people and leftists were too, show him how Nazi Germany was just capitalism incarnate, show him how Zionism helped Nazism until they realized they couldn’t anymore, show him that it is not the Jewish people’s fault. I know it is in Portuguese, but Breno Altman, a Jewish Brasilian Marxist and heavily anti-Zionist talks about it in this video. You should also show China’s and the DPRK stances on Israel and Zionism and other AES and previously Socialist countries stance on that.

    1. He thinks Nick Fuentes is funny, and likes that he is “one of the only far-right people who doesn’t utterly despise Muslims/Arabs”

    I don’t know much about Fuentes other than that he is a fucking Nazi, so it would probably be a good idea to find material that refutes him and shows how his views are abhorrent.

    Also, last, but not least, you need to play by his rules. What I mean is that if he is sending you bullshit fascist edits, then you need to start sending Marxist edits. It doesn’t matter that it might not be perfect, or that it might be slightly wrong, start sending him edits and other Marxist short-form content. I know KazakhMarxist is one good source for that. There’s also other great comrades that do short-form Marxist content like Lady Izdihar (she converted to Islam) and James Rehwald.