First I would like to provide some context for my question. I live in a suburb in a “flyover state” and also see wealth inequality as the problem to solve for. For more information on why I feel this way, see just about any video by Gary Stevenson: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXuOBKrmFYbKytq9mkcd62sJPb6w12vpU.

I think it is safe to assume that in the next 4 years, wealth inequality will not be addressed even verbally at the national level. I suspect most states will not attempt to address this issue either. I think suburban city councils are absolutely an option for near term changes and could even be a perfect place to start. I think the odds of a major company or billionaire showing up to protest any local changes in a smaller town are relatively small.

I propose that we as a society should be able to attend a city council meeting and suggest legislation similar to the following:

Any single family home owned by either a company or an individual who does not live in the same state should have a large property tax applied to it.

My thinking is that no company should ever own a single family home (if you’re a builder making a new home give them a window of like 1 year to sell it or something similar). If there are companies owning homes, they would be incentivized to sell the property. Large numbers of properties being dumped by businesses would lower housing costs locally. This would in turn lead to more locals having money to spend (hopefully locally, but you never know). I think the locality of their spending should probably be emphasized in a sales pitch to a city council. Businesses who refuse to sell will be paying large local taxes that the city could spend on the countless things that a city needs to operate but is currently underfunded. I guarantee you the local government has projects they want to do but can’t afford. Here is their solution. I do think that if businesses are refusing to sell, that means they are charging tenants the increased tax, and the property tax was set too low. The tax has to be high enough that businesses sell the property or else I don’t think this works.

The number of businesses or individuals affected by this new tax is probably really low for any given city. If you imagine a small town there are only going to be so many companies owning single property homes (less than 10?) same story with wealthy out of state home owners (less than 20?) The total number of homes in the area is going to be much larger though so there should be a sizeable and noticable impact. I use out of state as the qualifier for individuals as it is pretty easy to ask for a local driver’s license as proof you live in the state, and to my knowledge states don’t let you carry IDs from multiple states. You only live in 1, you only have 1 ID, and you always have it with you so it should be easy enough to enforce.

People/businesses who don’t comply could have their property foreclosed on, then auctioned off to a state resident with proceeds again going to the city. I think the pushback would be that this is anti business. To which I would agree and say yes, businesses have no business owning single family homes, that is what citizens do. These citizens will have more money to spend locally which will attract more businesses and pay more local taxes. Money from local citizens going to major businesses who pass earnings on to investors is how local money gets exported out of the community and is not business we want owning our homes. It also diminishes the ability of locals to spend at local businesses.

My hopes is that Lemmy can help poke holes in this plan and provide solutions to the holes. Perhaps you see a better way to present this idea. Perhaps better ideas are proposed. Perhaps you see a smarter solution. Something needs to change, and I want the best odds of successfully bringing about change for the better. I want my kids to be able to buy a house some day. At this rate, that won’t happen. We need a solution, and maybe this is a start.

  • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
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    6 hours ago

    Another discussion point that always comes up is “Jeff Bezos can’t pay that tax rate, it’s all tied up in shares of Amazon. He would have to sell huge portions of Amazon to keep up with the taxes.”

    And yes. That is the intent.

    But I’m not upset if folks would rather just eat him than deal with the logistics of it.

  • PeteWheeler@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    As a past tax accountant.

    I don’t believe a straight tax will get the job done. Taxation is too unpopular to be realistically effective, and will just have corners cut in very easy and direct ways. Mainly because the masses are too stupid to understand how taxes work. I have had countless times people ask me a tax question after knowing I work in tax, I’ll answer their question, and the answer is the same thing every fucking time no matter if its a friend, coworker, family, etc. “No that is wrong, what I think is correct actually”. It is infuriating.

    I think there are three effective ways to tackle wealth inequality.

    1. Give workers ownership along with their wage. The ‘owners’ will of course have a bigger cut than the workers, but the current hoarding of ownership is what I think the key issue is. Our idea of ownership is the root cause.

    2. Lobbying/bribes. We all know why this is bad, but it happens. Until this is fixed wealth inequality will never be fixed.

    3. Loans. It is so easy for the wealthy to receive a good deal on a loan. Only because they already have money and the loan is not necessary. We need to limit loans on people who already have one successful business. Why are we allowing people who have prospered receive more money without more scrutiny? That is the definition of greed. As long as their BS and IS look okay to a bank, they will get approved with little to no follow up.

    4. Distributions. In the US, when filing as a S-corp, they will receive no income tax. This is because they are then required to have the owners be paid a ‘fair’ wage to themselves. Why? Because payroll taxes are more compared to income taxes in this scenario. Problems arise when owners will obviously abuse what is a ‘fair’ wage. Lets say an owner gives himself a 30k wage because that is what is ‘fair’. There is nothing stopping him from withdrawing 100,000 in contributions a year, and distributions are tax free with literally no oversight. The only checks and balances for this is they might have a basis issue later in life, but honestly that is a pretty small fine for essentially having all the tax free income they want as long as their biz is doing good.

    *This is based off my experience as tax accountant/consultant for small businesses with less than 20 employees 2 years ago. Tax laws have changed since then.

    • YoloBurrito@lemmy.today
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      9 hours ago

      US income tax is only unpopular because of the onerous filing requirements. Most wage earners could get they tax statement mailed to them by the IRS but the Tax Prep Duopoly (Intuit and HR Block) lobby against this as do the “starve the beast” crowd.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      Also I’m interested in solving wealth inequality. I’d prefer the 1940’s style income tax with the insanely high brackets at the extreme high end (90% tax was it?)

      I have some followup questions your ideas.

      1. Workers are getting an ownership stake. Are workers also liable when the company loses money? Today this only falls on the owner. If there is a negative cashflow situation, the owner has to inject more of their own money into the operation or the business will close. Many times this money comes from cash earned during fat times to be able to keep the company afloat during the lean times. If workers are taking a portion (above and beyond payroll of course) of the profits during fat years, will they also be liable for fronting cash to keep the business going in a lean year?

      2. I support the end of lobbying. No notes.

      3. Are you talking about loans from governmental organizations like the city/state/fed intending to spur development or are you talking loans issued by banks? I assume bank loans, correct me if I’m wrong. If that’s the case we’d be setting laws on how one private organization can lend to another. My understanding of regulations on loans to date have only enabled loans to classes wrongfully historically excluded (such a loans denied to minorities under Redlining rules). I’m not finance expert, but can’t think if any laws that disable a banks ability to lend. Sure there are rules around maintaining bank liquidity and nonusurious interest rates, but those are just qualifications instead of ourtight bans of loans. This would be a new precedent wouldn’t it?

      4. "There is nothing stopping him from withdrawing 100,000 in contributions a year, and distributions are tax free with literally no oversight. " Wouldn’t that $100k be counted as income and the owner to pay income tax on that? Are you making an example of a way that corporate taxes are not being paid?

      • YoloBurrito@lemmy.today
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        9 hours ago

        I agree post war high marginal tax rates with large deductions for spending is the right way. We’ve solved this problem before. It’s the real “trickle down” because it’s forced spending.

      • howrar@lemmy.ca
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        7 hours ago

        Regarding #1, it can work the same way that company ownership works now (e.g. when you buy shares on the stock market). I don’t know how they inject money when times get tough but I’ve certainly never given them anything.

        • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          If you’re using the model publicly traded stock, when a company needs more money they issue more stock for sale the public. What this also does is devalue the existing stock in circulation. Assuming these suggestions go into law, that sounds like a massive loophole that owners could exploit.

  • MajorHavoc@programming.dev
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    6 hours ago

    Hold a silent reverse auction. Whichever billionaires agree to the highest tax rate don’t get eaten. The new billionaire tax rate is whatever the uneaten billionaires agreed to.

    Edit: Also, roll 4d10+50 and add it as a secret bid. If it happens to be the highest bid, eat all of the billionaires. This roll is the “public option” to prevent the billionaires from colluding to cheat the system.

  • venotic@kbin.melroy.org
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    9 hours ago

    Wealth Inequality on it’s own, is a problem almost nobody but the middle, lower-middle and the poor will address. It has to start here. Nobody should amass the amount of money we see individuals possess. If someone understands how far a single million could stretch for someone (provided they’re responsible that is), they would understand how pointless it’d be for someone to have even 10 million or 100 million or even a single billion.

    And if anyone gave two shits about the seven deadly sins, the idea of accumulating more money should be a more frowned-upon thing. But instead, gaining more money equals to you being more powerful than most. That’s not how things should ever be. There should be a cap of how much money you should realistically earn up to. We’ve already seen the damage and continuing to see the damage afflicted, by incredibly rich people. They’re too dangerous to be wielding that much.

  • Chris@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    A progressive wealth tax where at some amount of money your are taxed down to that amount. Billionaires shouldn’t exist.

    Practically that is impossible unless the rest of the world agrees, otherwise they will just hide their wealth overseas.

    • vin@lemmynsfw.com
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      10 hours ago

      This is why assets should be taxed in some way - like how government gets a cut on every share transaction or like by government owning ports leasing operations

  • wolfpack86@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    My personal thoughts are:

    • Close carried interest loop holes
    • Tax loans against unrealized gains on securities and physical property (excluding ones primary residence). You should not be able to take a billion dollar loan out to avoid capital gains taxes. I’m fine that this raises the basis for when the asset is sold. Well, someone do the math if there’s a loophole this creates? But hopefully my intent is clear.
    • Social security and Medicare tax applies to all income. Shares granted as part of compensation should also have social taxes payable on grant.
    • Increase the tax brackets above the current max of 37% for income above $609k… Every 250kish above should increase by 2% until you reach 50% (about 2.5m)

    That money should then be used for:

    • Increasing social security payouts
    • Expanding medicare access
    • Increasing the limits for the tax brackets on the progressive scale for incomes below 250k

    To boost the bottom:

    • Stock buybacks are illegal except for the purposes of distributing stock to employees. This counts for executives but cannot exceed some multiple of their cash salary
    • 20% of money flagged as dividend payments to shareholders should be distributed to employees as profit sharing into their retirement account. There needs to be rules around the max differential between the highest and lowest disbursement.
  • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    12 hours ago

    by giving the workplaces back to the workers. tax the rich by eliminating their profit and redistributing the fruits of labor where it belongs.

    the Argentinian example is extremely inspiring for workplace self-management:

    if you prefer podcasts, here’s an episode on Fabricas Ocupadas (occupied factories).

    https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anarcho-argentina-one-year-on

    https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/jose-antonio-gutierrez-d-workers-without-bosses#fn10

    • CMLVI@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      They love to use him as an example of govt cuts to services to “stabilize” spending, but will also ignore the mechanisms by which people are pulling themselves out of poverty.

        • CMLVI@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          Javier Milei and his massive govt cuts. It’s also losing a lot of nuance in Argentina’s situation vs the US, so even before direct comparisons start, issues arise. But the more well-aware GOP people I know are decently big fans of his tactics of large govt cuts to reduce overall spending.

    • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
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      11 hours ago

      I get where you’re coming from but that’s only even possible with publicly traded companies and even then, it’s got issues.

      Some private companies have valuations — like if you raise a round, you set a valuation and hope people invest at that valuation — but the initial investors can’t sell their shares to pay the tax on unrealized gains.

      But that’s only with startups, the best case scenario. Small businesses might have investors that are friends and family. Like, say you help a friend open a restaurant with a $10,000 investment. The restaurant becomes popular. Maybe your chef friend even wins prestigious awards. Now, it’s April 15th and you’re supposed to know what the restaurant is worth? It’d just be a wild guess. The IRS would have no idea either.

      If you just did that with publicly traded companies, there’d be a market crash every April as everyone sells their shares to pay their taxes. Whoever filed their taxes last would have less unrealized capital gains compared to those who did their taxes early before all the selling.

      So, anyway, to my mind, the concept is morally fair but unworkable and we’re stuck taxing realized gains.

  • gon [he]@lemm.ee
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    12 hours ago

    I’d like to preface my comment by stating that I’m not American and have never lived in the US, so my knowledge of how stuff works (IDs and whatnot) is null.

    That being said, surely there’s records for these things. I really don’t think that there needs to be a check for IDs at any point, on a personal level, because this information should be available either in the deed, and everyone’s IDs are in the electronic systems at the state and federal level. So it’s not that what you said about IDs is wrong, more so likely unnecessary, in a practical sense.

    However, I do think there are a few problematic things here.

    1. Your definition of “live in the state,” which you didn’t provide.

    Say I work in NYC, NY State, but I’m originally from Vermont. I own a home in NYC and a home in Vermont. Where do I live? Mostly in NY, but I spend my summers in Vermont. What if my husband is from Maine, so I also own a home in Maine that we go to every couple of years to meet his family? What if my son lives in South Carolina, so I own a home there to go visit him? What if I own the home, never go there, but my son does live there?

    These questions — and other questions in a similar vein that I couldn’t even think of — need to have a clear answer, if you want this sort of legislation to be applicable.

    1. Living in the state and owning several homes as an individual.

    If I live and work in Vermont, but own a whole neighborhood, what then? I’m a citizen of the state, I live in the state, I do it as an individual and not through a company. I don’t see anything in what you wrote that indicates this would be a problem, but I think it is a problem and should be encompassed by legislation of the sort you suggest.

    These two points, I believe, highlight the fact that living in a state is a really bad indicator of whether home ownership is beneficial. I think the primary indicators should be legal status — company vs individual — and maybe something like the percentage of available homes. As in, a certain percentage of available homes is allowed to be owned by companies or individuals for non-living purposes. That could work as a sort of cap on how the market can be manipulated by speculative real-estate investment.

    1. Not everyone’s a buyer.

    Not everyone wants or needs to buy a home. You want your children to be able to buy a home, great, but what if they simply don’t want to? What if they want to rent? If they move to a different state but don’t think of it as a long-term or life-long place for them, they might not want to buy. They need to be able to rent from somewhere, then. Of course, if more people can buy, more people will own, and more people will be open to renting it out. However, this is a difficult proposition, I’d imagine. Renting isn’t a bad thing, it’s about how controlled it is, how regulated it is, and who ultimately benefits from the system.

    If you’re gonna force large rental companies to sell their properties, you need to have a clear plan as to how the tenants can find other places to rent from. Again, there are a lot of people that rent not because they can’t afford to buy, but because they find that to be the best option for their particular situation. I think some kind of state or local buyback program could be good, and would allow the state to offer low-cost housing for many people, effectively flipping the rampant market speculation into a social service. Another thing could be to cap rent, I believe rent-control is a measure that already exists in some places. For example, if companies don’t want to pay the extra taxes, they would need to fulfill a certain quota of rent-controlled tenants. Something like that.

    I’m just spitballing here, but I hope my input could be of some use to you!

    • whirlpoolbrewer@lemm.eeOP
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      11 hours ago

      First, thank you for the thoughtful and detailed comment. It was really well thought out and really hit on some excellent points. This is the feedback I was hoping for. I’m a software developer by profession, not someone who writes legislation, so the whole proposition is basically spitballing until something usable comes out.

      You make some really good points and I agree with them for the most part. I’m going to sit and think on this some and get back to you after I’ve had some time to digest it more.