Unfortunately this runs into constitutional problems. While the spineless subhuman creatures in congress and the supreme court seem to have no problem with Trump and his administration ignoring the constitution I fully expect them to come down hard on any state that does so (at least in cases that go against Trump and his policies).
Constitution? What constitution ?
What’s good for the goose…
Don’t have to care about being unconstitutional if you’re not part of the union.
That’s great in theory but just as unrealistic in practice for California as it always has been for Texas. The single biggest stumbling block for any state to leave the union for any reason is the military. Most of the other problems can be resolved within the borders of the state, but the disposition of existing and theoretical new military hardware, personnel, and bases will always be a sticking point even assuming the federal government and the other states are willing to let them leave.
Any attempt to leave the US that has any hope of succeeding would be a very long and protracted process that would make Brexit look breakneck in comparison. We’re talking at least a couple decades at a minimum.
It’s either that or another civil war and that has so many variables I’m not sure anyone has any hope of predicting how that would turn out.
Water is more of an issue than the military. The US relies heavily on California for food so that would be a bargaining chip.
Economics in general. California is responsible for a significant chunk of the entire US GDP as well as being one of the primary shipping hubs. My point was more along the lines that these other problems are tractable, you could for instance negotiate trade deals between the rest of the US and California. The military on the other hand is a much tougher problem akin to unscrambling an egg. There’s no obvious way to disentangle California from the greater US military.
That’s the problem … if you are damned if you stay and damned if you leave … everyone starts weighing the options of either situation
The choices for staying become … stay and beholden to federal government that ties your hands, manipulates your economy and uses you for their benefit while never allowing you to do what your people want for themselves
or … secede and fight a political, economic and possibly even a military conflict to decide your own future
either options is terrible in the long run (if things continue as they are) but staying means things stay indefinitely terrible while seceding gives a higher chance of political autonomy.
Leaving the union? Yep you guessed it, unconstitutional. Secession would absolutely cause a war
If the union doesn’t provide any benefits and only costs money and prevents your state from functioning as well as it could and the union only makes solutions harder to solve … why stay in the union?
States stay together because of mutual benefit, not because of a document or promises.
And you could force a state to stay in a union by force but the cost of doing that far outweighs the benefits of a peaceful union.
See my other response to peregrin5 but in addition you’re assuming rational actors all around. Actual reality is far more messy with many of those involved making decisions based more on feelings than any in depth reasoning. States stay together because there’s no obvious alternative. There’s no mechanism for a state to leave the union and doing so requires solving many problems that have no obvious answers.
Don’t forget they’re Democrats.
When the courts rule against them they’ll just meekly comply.
Thank goodness now we are talking. Time for California to move past the Orange Turd.
Turd gonna clamp down on California. He’s got to. Otherwise he loses grip.
Here we go, dissolution of the U.S. is starting. It’s a slow roll, but i think that’s where we are headed
been thinking and saying for years that we’re on the path to a soviet style balkanization. just wasn’t sure what would be the spark. this certainly smells like one.
If Texas somehow joins California, were fucked
Texas? Unlikely
I think that’s a reference to the Civil War movie a while back.
Bingo
Newsom is directing his state to pursue “strategic” relationships with countries announcing retaliatory tariffs against the U.S., urging them to exclude California-made products from those taxes.
It sounds like he wants foreign countries to do California a favor without getting anything in exchange. Or is there something that he has the authority to offer in exchange which I’m missing?
California ! Uber Alles !
Unironically ? I’m so confused
“United” States stands divided. It just gets worse…and at an incredible speed. It’s always quicker and easier to demolish as opposed to building. Every one wants the easy money and the quick buck without a balanced expenditure of energy.
Secede and then we can trade :)
If they secede you will definitely not be trading with either half for a long time.
Better than the current situation honestly. Both being preoccupied is better than Trump’s admirations of Canadian minerals
Not if you get all the nuclear fallout.
I think I’d rather be nuked than be lead by the orange man ngl
I doubt that’s true
I don’t know if you understand the pettiness and absolute disdain of the idea of being American that Canadians have. I live in Ottawa so I would be in the city that gets nuked if it came to that
Ok
All hail The New California Republic. But in all seriousness, it wouldn’t surprise me if the United States has a balkanization event happen in the near future.
The US does not need balkanization.
We have a single region that has been rebellious and trying to corrupt and destroy the rest of the union since the founding, because they cannot see any governmental or religious structure as legitimate unless it is founded on the principles of racism. This is their own words.
Lincoln was wrong to readmit the south, we should have let Sherman finish then build a wall around them, while letting any slaves who wanted to escape do so.
Either that or we need to restart reconstruction today with absolute brutality.
Before they committed treason against the US alone, this time they allied with Russia to bring us down.
I dont think the lines are the same anymore. Social media and 24/7 news has given people in plenty of northern regions the same viewpoints. A civil war would not be north vs. south. it would be neighbor vs neighbor
I always hear this.
I am brown and grew up in the Midwest.
Then my family moved to the south.
This is like comparing Canadians who care about hockey with the Khmer Rouge exterminating much of their population.
The south is just infinitely worse in literally every way.
there are a lot of nice people in the south. there are a lot of brown people in the south. you think everyone needs to suffer brutality for what the worst do?
In the Midwest there are bad people too.
The difference?
In the Midwest when a racist is being a racist, people say shit, they stand up to them!
In the south the bystanders just laugh, at worst they laugh nervously.
Which is why it’s a vile and corrupt society.
Police yourself, or don’t be surprised to be judged as evil.
in the midwest, it’s political brainrot, not racism or things like that.
I agree.
But that’s vastly better.
The deep, DEEP seated racial hatred of the south is a terrifying thing and is something that has lasted literal centuries, they switched parties over that.
The Midwest at least has some hope.
We have a single region that has been rebellious and trying to corrupt and destroy the rest of the union since the founding
Isn’t a ton of the current Trump administration rot coming from Silicon Valley?
Isn’t Silicon Valley in California?
Lincoln was wrong to readmit the south
The South was under the Reconstruction plan, complete with Marshall Law and Freedman’s Bureaus and all sorts of additional federal oversight, untilThe Compromise of 1877 gave Rutherford B. Hayes the presidency at the cost of his soul.
Lincoln didn’t simply readmit the South. He readmitted 9 million enslaved Americans as proper first class citizens. And the initial wave of democratization gave birth to a brief but generally optimistic egalitarian glimpse of a potential future.
Lincoln’s big mistake was not putting Smedly Butler into his VP seat. Letting the country revert to Andrew Johnson was the big blunder. One that Grant had to spend two terms mopping up.
But that’s all distant history. The modern fascist presidency is born out of Manhattan Island. The modern Texas/Florida/Ohio Axis of Evil is a product of Yale Business School. Stanford Alumni are fucking us up far more today than some Daughters of the Confederacy could have dreamed.
This isn’t a North/South problem. It’s a turf war between extractive industry and the professional class.
Yeah, because if there’s two things we know silicon valley loves it’s the core issues of the Trump administrafion:
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Immigration restrictions
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Tariffs
He was voted in purely about the south, who are not only fascists to the core (if what they consider to be Christo-fascists).
The thing is: their religion, the southern Baptist church, was founded because they wanted a religion whose core dogma was that slavery was a commandment from God. Hence their basing the Sbc around the curse of Ham justifying slavery. The nazis themselves based the Nuremberg Laws off Jim crow, only without the 1 drop rule.
This is 100% the south, the restriction of women’s rights, the anti-lgbt, racism, isolation ism.
They’ve been sold that Russia is their best ally because it is the last True (read: white) Christian Nation fighting against the atheist and Muslim hordes who have infested Europe.
Silicon valley doesn’t want any of this bullshit, they just want less regulation. This has been a nightmare for them, Europe is starting their own competitors and regulating the cloud providers.
Silicon valley is smart, this whole thing has the backwards inbred balls-over-brains energy of the south.
Show me one Manhattan anyone who thinks those tariffs are a good idea.
Super popular in the south though, finally those rich northerners will have to pay them to do the work, instead of buying stuff from the dirty Mexicans.
there’s two things we know silicon valley loves it’s the core issues of the Trump administrafion:
Immigration restrictionsTariffsGo pick up a copy of The Network State
Are you fucking insane?
The ceos of most tech companies are Asian!
Google, Microsoft, Nvidia.
trump is literally an immigrant, so.
As is musk, and he stood up against the h1b thing pretty hard for 5 minutes.
They don’t want to lose their slaves.
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Last civil war was about state rights to own slaves. Now its state right to avoid trade distribution?
My god the writers need to be fired.
How 'bout religious awakening against trump?
Isn’t it for trump?
Yes, but remember the Jews are a very crafty folk. They are building their plot of canonization through trump - however their is one other person that could supercede his religious seat.
The right name, at the right time, in the right place makes all the difference.
However normal people are so antichristian without even trying to understand the reasoning behind a christian book. Which I find really frustrating, as they don’t understand it is pivotal to capturing the world’s heart. It has been used as the archetype for the modern worker and their submission. Submission to each other is kindness, and peaceful. However, we are forced to submit to a faceless corporation, for which we must revere, fear, and hold above all else while in position. Essentially making a false god in all but name, however this unbreathing beast controls your lives.
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California produces 10% of American agricultural needs. If they secede it would be way worse on the economy than these tariffs.
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Those 5 states would do just fine without the United States but the United states would be an unimportant backwater without them.
well no, the US would still be 60-70% of the total US economy without them lmao.
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an economy of whatever it currently does? I think you literally said it yourself, the handful of states are 30% the economy of the US total, the rest is still a thing, it’s not going to disappear lmao. Idk how hard this is to understand.
The US primarily exports high value goods and services, tech for example, not food.
How would a state secede from the US? Like, what’s the actual process?
The best way would be quiet quitting. Making routes to federal buildings surrounded by construction and road closures at odd times. Overlapping federal job descriptions internally and never communicating with federal equivalents unless required, and that with a “great email, still working on that!” Or “emailed Oregon about that and they had some great ideas, get with them for the data!”
Offering great state guard contracts to all military eligible to re-up, that exceed what the feds offer. Build out coastal protection fleet due to “them darn migrants.” Train your military in FPV as if you were what the US should be doing right now, so the feds know any pushback will be costly, and you’re not breaking any laws anyway, remember?
Tell your state and local police we don’t work with the FBI or IRS in cooperation any more, and let the populace know the feds must individually enforce all tax law. That’s where it’s good for the Feds to remember that’s not required, and the 4th amendment prevents them being forced to act… in fact, that makes them subject to arrest for trying due to the laws of the great state of california.
All legal, and petty. But legal.
Legally, a state can’t secede really, but the other states could agree to let it go. It would require a Constitutional Convention, which would require 2/3 of states to agree to let it go.
Ah yes. “legally”.
If Trump thinks he’s above the Constitution why can’t a state?
No, there is legal precedence for this
Under NAFTA states could impose their own tariffs because NAFTA was a Federal agreement and countries would have to negotiate free trade with individual states
This is just the reverse of that
As a non-American, the more i learn about US states, the more I realise that the country is more like a reluctant confederation than an actual unified country.
The US is the Austria-Hungary of our time.
Oh shit can they do that?
Why not? If the last couple of months have proven anything, it’s that our entire system is a paper tiger.
