Hi,
I am curious to know what women who have read Ernest Hemingways books think of his style, writing, etc. as his books are very masculine oriented and typically on the topics of men and their struggles. I recently started reading The Old Man And The Sea and as I was reading it, the thought occurred to me that I really couldn’t imagine a woman relating to what was being said on the page.
So I’m curious, female readers who have read his books…do you relate to much of what its saying? What do you think of his books?
Sorry if this sounds naive/obtuse, that is not my intention.
My sister thinks Hemmingway’s novels are boring, but she loves his non-fiction essays. The one about bullfighting is apparently very educational.
A Moveable Feast is great.
Why do you think women can’t relate to The Old Man and the Sea?
Because it’s from a male perspective? Because it’s about a fisherman? Because it’s about physical and mental anguish? Because it’s about our bodies being unable to do what they once could in our younger years? Because it’s about the struggle to survive?
I’m not asking to be sassy. I genuinely don’t get what about the book you think women couldn’t relate to. Would you not be able to relate to a book about a woman and her struggles?
yeah I get it’s a thing now to shit on Hemingway for the dude being so masculine (and misognystic ? I don’t actually know) but like, I could read The Bell Jar just fine and I didn’t share nearly anything w the author/mc but could relate to the feelings of ennui even if it was obvi very gendered
I read The Sun Also Rises and I didn’t like for any reason related to my sex or gender. I just didn’t like or care for the characters and his prose. But I think it might be that I was missing some context to for Hemingway as a writer that would have helped me appreciate the story more.
I could certainly relate to the hardships, struggles, and ultimately losing the prize (Old Man and the Sea).
One of the reasons that Hemingway is still read today is that he writes about universal struggles of human beings, not just human men.
I enjoy books about men as well as books about women. The old Man and the Sea is relatable regarding stubbornness and determination and the power of nature, life, circumstances, fate whatever to override personal plans and intentions. Books about the struggle to survive transcend specific gender.
I’m not usually a fan of books of that era that focus on men and women interacting because of the sexism
It’s not a problem that he centers his writing on men and their struggles. The problem is he includes some women and writes them badly.
I just don’t like his writing style. I want more descriptive language. I had to read The Old Man and the Sea in school, but I’ve never been able to make it through any of his other books.
I wouldn’t have any problem reading books about men and their struggles, I would just need a different author writing them if I want to enjoy them.
I’ve only read The Old Man and The Sea. It was required reading in high school. It was very emotionless and bland to me.
I don’t see why women can’t relate to The Old Man and the Sea, and furthermore, why someone would even need to relate. I read, say, Mieko Kawakami and I love Breast and Eggs despite it being a heavy tackling of women’s issues. And I love James Baldwin, but I relate nothing to racism and its struggles.
Now of course there’s the argument of absence of women and the quality of them, but who is writing, when is it written, and who are the women in his work portrayed against and viewed through the eyes of? I think the answers to these are in hypermasculinity and the mysoginy in the 20th century. And I think there’s value in reading that and other “old” ways of being and thinking.
This for me. I can’t help but wonder why these days everything needs to be relatable to you personally and your specific worldview, otherwise it’s not worth reading. I always thought that literature is supposed to broaden your worldview, train empathy and give you insight into different minds and eras.
Female characters in his books might be rubbish, but that’s also part of the insight into the masculine “male gaze” of the author/time period.
I honestly loved the Old man and the Sea. I tried reading to have or have not and it was ok, i didn t quite like it but it s bc I had a time gap reading it/ read it too fast, I don t recall which one it was
I’ve read a bunch of his stuff, to have and have not, is not his best. Not by a long shot.
Not everyone has this weird need to personally relate to what they’re reading. In fact, I don’t understand that need whatsoever, as I don’t want to read essentially about myself again and again. I want stories and perspectives different from mine to learn about other people and human experiences.
You know, I’ve seen plenty of comments by men saying they exclusively or primarily read books about men and by men because they don’t relate to women, whereas women don’t seem to have this issue. We gladly read about men’s lives and experiences because we are interested in all people, whereas the aforementioned men often don’t even see us as people.
That’s so true. And in fact, writers and publishers know this. 9/10 new books are either celebrity memoirs, fiction about completely abnormal humans (either fabulously wealthy and at the top of society or totally destitute, from a totally different era/universe), or magical fantasy beings.
Few people want to sit down and read about the minutiae of school drop off, the plumber fixing a clog, or regular marital problems unless the writer is in the top .001% of fantastic storytellers. We read to escape, learn, be entertained, feel, cry, struggle, accomplish.
With that said I hate Hemingway, or did when I was forced to read him and dissect his works throughout my youth. Thanks, male AP English teachers.
I love Tolstoy, a who was a passionate misogynist, so make of that what you will. Lol
I love most of his writing, and For Whom the Bell Tolls is one of my favorite novels. It’s a crucible in which we see all these different versions of humanity emerge. We see what friendship and loyalty look like, we watch love unfold and expire, we see how identities are formed in relation to a cause, to a tiny and insular community, to the land.
As a woman, I read all kinds of things. I think some of the women characters he writes are underdeveloped or less than 3-dimensional (and often exist as an extension of a male character). But I also think he writes about things that are universally human, and I enjoy the way his sometimes-spare writing style serves as a flat backdrop against which big themes and feelings can really take center stage.
Well, I am sure that a female author who wrote about females and their struggles as exclusively as Hemingway wrote about males and their struggles would have their works dismissed and derided as “chick lit” rather than taken seriously and lauded as classics that everyone should read and are universally relatable to everyone. That’s sort of the thing. Men in terms of writers and readers are treated as the default. So works written exclusively for and about them are still deemed universal and quality literature (true classics that must be read and appreciated by all), but works by women who are not seen as the default that mainly focus on female characters and their struggles will be seen as only for women and denigrated as lesser “chick lit.”
I’ve read The Sun Also Rises. I thought it was okay. Probably spoke better to the people of its generation than to me. It definitely didn’t register for me as great literature.
I read a short story by him. Don’t remember the title but it was about a little boy getting sick and confused about his temperature meaning he would die (a celsius versus Fahrenheit thing) and I thought that was genuinely moving.
Based on my experience, I’d probably be quicker to pick up another short story by him than another novel.
His writing style to me is very flat and simplistic with very repetitive and dull sentence structure. Personally, I again prefer it in his short stories rather than his novels.
I don’t hate his writing style, but I don’t think it is particularly brilliant, and when it gets worshiped as the best ever and treated as something all other authors should emulate, it becomes tiresome. There are plenty of different styles (some inspired or influenced by the other many great authors that have appeared in the history of writing) that people can use so when Hemingway is given some sort of god status above even other classical writers, it makes me roll my eyes.
It’s the lionization of Hemingway and elevation of him to some sort of unquestionable literary deity that irritates me more than anything else.
That and the knowledge that if he were a female writing stories focused on females and their struggles his works would just get dismissed as “chick lit.” But since he is a man they are classics everybody must read and relate to.
The sexist double standard that treats females as beneath men is alive and well in the world of literature.
not trying to be dismissive but do you have an example of a female author who should be given classic status but has been seen as writing chick lit? trying to broaden my horizons
To be honest, it is the very idea and term “chick lit” that I find offensive and degrading. Especially because there is no equivalent derisive term that is used to dismiss books written by male authors that focus on male issues and struggles. It’s only books written by women that focus on issues and struggles relevant to women that get denigrated as “chick lit.” A term that explicitly shames women for writing and reading these stories and discourages males from ever seeking out these stories as well.
It reinforces this idea that male writers, male readers, and male struggles are universal and the default whereas female writers, female readers, and female struggles are not the default and are not universal. Thus, books by female authors that discuss female issues and struggles are at high risk of being deemed “chick lit.”
Basically, as we see in many of the replies in this thread, if a female reader doesn’t relate to a book by a male author that focuses primarily on male issues and struggles, then it is assumed to be something lacking in her (either her intelligence or empathy is wanting) because she can’t appreciate this great classic that will be forced down her throat in high school and college.
However, if male readers want to avoid books by female authors that focus on female issues and struggles, that is seen as fine and perfectly normal. Even encouraged by the term “chick lit.” Basically, if a male reader can’t relate to a book by a female author that focuses on female issues and struggles, it is not seen as any sort of deficiency or reflective of any lack of intelligence or empathy in him. Because why would a book by a silly female focusing on silly female issues be relevant to him? So, the lacking is assumed to be on the part of the female author, the book for writing about female issues and struggles, and on the female readers who find something worthwhile or meaningful in “chick lit” that is treated as obviously lesser than books by male authors that focus on issues and struggles relevant to men.
It’s not about reading one author or book more or less.
It’s about changing the underlying assumptions and attitudes that impact how we read all authors and books, in my opinion.
At least that is my view and perspective.
I love Ernest Hemingway. I love his terse, straightforward writing style. And you don’t need a penis to enjoy reading about fishing or any of the adventures in his other books, I don’t think.
Sometimes I like to read him while sipping on a glass of whiskey, which I know is most unladylike!
Corollary A: You don’t need to enjoy fishing if you have a penis.
Women have been relating to male-created written work, films, etc. for a long time, partly because that’s what was on offer and partly because humans of any gender have a lot in common. And most people have both traditionally masculine and traditionally feminine personality traits, interests and ways of thinking.
For Hemingway, I would probably never truly relate to his female characters since they are just stand-ins (at least in works that I’ve read) but I can easily relate to his male hero, maybe because of my experience as an immigrant and a bit of a nomad, maybe because of the writing style and underlying tone appealing to me.
I haven’t read Old Man and the Sea.