It’s something I struggle with. Some bad news comes out about some public persona doing something shitty and they get cancelled. But sometimes I really struggle with giving up the things they’ve made because I like them. There are also occasions where the person has been accused of something and it doesn’t seem true to me, or I think they’re genuinely sorry and have been punished enough, and the context isn’t being considered.
What do you think? Who do you feel conflicted about enjoying?
Kevin Spacey. He’s just such a good actor, I like every movie he’s in. The first season of House of Cards was amazing too.
It always gets me that Matthew Broderick killed two people in a car crash and got off with a $100 fine. I love Ferris Bueller’s day off, and I think he’s really talented, but like this happened just after that movie, and he just did not seem to be held to account for it.
Neil Gaiman. I’m extremely depressed that he’s actually a POS, and because I loved his work so much, I’m conflicted. His work itself seemed to have well interrogated values woven into it’s fiber, but I guess you never can tell.
Edit: really fucking bummed about Red Hot Chili Peppers too
Same with his ex? Wife Amanda Palmer. I love the Dresden Dolls and she’s been very inspirational but knowing she was in on it was fucked up.
This broke my damn heart. His work seemed to have the values I hold dear and be so insightful and then… he’s getting in the bath with girls who depend on him for housing.
I am thinking that power corrupts. I came up with that but you can use that phrase if you want.
man, this was the worst. but he’s not getting another dollar from me, the bastard. at least he’s not fighting Terry Pratchett’s estate over Good Omens.
speaking of which, Terry seems to have been just a great guy and was better than Neil anyway. It’s really helped me to let Neil go.
Helllll yeah! Terry Pratchett, but also I’m keeping ALL celebrity at arms length without heavy vetting at this point
Pretty sure the Anthony Keides stuff was well known for decades. It’s in his autobiography that was published like 20 years ago or something.
He’s always been the worst part of that band
It has been! That’s why it’s even more fucking disgusting to me. It isn’t well known or talked about, fucking bastards just get a fucking pass sometimes and I hate it
I remember the moment news broke out, that I just got rid of all books he authored. The Sandman graphic novels, Coraline, American Gods, Stardust .etc
All I was looking forward to reading someday but nope.
If you had donated them, to a thrift store or maybe a library, it would’ve kept someone else from buying a new copy, which would give him money.
I haven’t gotten rid of mine but they’re all stowed away in a corner.
That’s what I’m struggling with. Throwing his content in the trash regardless of content 😩 I got sandman 1 omnibus for Christmas last year, ughhhhhh
If you want to feel better about ditching things, just donate them.
I have a theory that all writers are somewhat hypocritical. As an amateur writer myself (I write fan fiction and am also working on original work I hope to get published eventually), I find sometimes the moral messages I try to weave into my work are sometimes messages that I myself am struggling to live up to and writing is a way of trying to work through that
kiedis from scar tissue? or is there something new i missed?
Yeah, his memoir or whatever details him knowingly committing statutory of a 14 yo girl.
Anti-Flag.
Absolutely sucks who Justin Sane turned out to be, but the music the group made together are still absolute bangers.
This is going to get buried, but I miss Bill Cosby, or rather my mental model of him before all that nastiness came out.
Neil Gaiman. I’m afraid there won’t be a third season of Good Omens.
I mean, I didn’t throw out my Harry Potter boxed set just becsuse Rowling is a dumb fucking TERF. I just don’t continue buying shit she profits off of, and can see tons of questionable things in her work that I didn’t question before knowing her thoughts on things.
Doesn’t anything HP give her a cut?
It’s the reason HP is banned in this household.
Getting rid of things you already had before it became known she was a transphobe doesn’t take the money away from her.
there is an argument to be made for preventing further money being made by giving it to someone who will otherwise buy it new, but then you also have to consider additionally exposure if you give it to someone who wouldn’t otherwise have bought it…
i don’t blame you for your choice. she’s alive and using money from the franchise to actively fund initiatives that hurt people. but let me copy my comment from elsewhere in this thread (about Scott Adams and old Dilbert books)
hey, read the books you already own all you want. that doesn’t put anymore money in his pocket.
being “cancelled” doesn’t mean we stick our fingers in our ears and act like it didn’t happen. it just means being conscientious about funding the lives of people who are actively making the world a worse place.
this is a critical detail that I think people often miss
I feel conflicted about reading and writing Harry Potter fan fiction. The negative side is it draws attention to the franchise. The positive side is it helps people enjoy Harry Potter content without benefiting Rowling.
I understand people’s feelings towards her, but to call her transphobic seems a bit harsh. She doesn’t show hatred for trans people, but a need to show that they are different than woman born as female. Although this might be ignorant in some ways. . . I don’t see it as a form of hatred or fear towards trans people. We as a society have a hard time looking at nuance.
Just because she doesn’t outright say I hate trans. People doesn’t mean that she uses her fame her money and her businesses to help incorporate and promote anti-trans policies in the UK and also promote those ideas in the world ideas that trans people aren’t people. How is that not the definition of hatred just in a different way you need to stop being so ignorant because you really are and I’m only saying that to help you open up to reality.
The Harry Potter universe is bigger than her to where we can love the universe for what it is and can cut her out easily.
Except for buying anything new. That’s not cutting her out.
Al Franken
Louis CK. He was my favorite comedian, but the first special after ‘cancellation’ had all the hallmarks of a washed up has been with grievances. But he’s been back to his old form lately, and I still consider him the best comic of his generation.
Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert. I have several of his print books and still enjoy reading them; ditto his old cartoons. They really spoke to me years ago, as a cubicle-coder.
hey, read the books you already own all you want. that doesn’t put anymore money in his pocket.
being “cancelled” doesn’t mean we stick our fingers in our ears and act like it didn’t happen. it just means being conscientious about funding the lives of people who are actively making the world a worse place.
this is a critical detail that I think people often miss
I think it’s wild that he’s the same man who made Dilbert trans and feminist in his tv show finale and it actually got kind of sincere.
‘The Dilbert Principle’ is a great book. It’s a shame he threw all that goodwill away.
I stopped liking dilbert when it became obvious that dilbert was becoming a side character so he could prop up PHB. Anything I’ve seen since then is just insufferable.
Removed by mod
Both of the Linuses
Sebastian and Torvalds
Sebastian because most of the shit he’s been accused of has either been fixed openly, or was proven mostly false.
Torvalds because while he can be extremely rude, he generally only does it when the person deserves to be called out. It’s not like he’s going off at random people. Society says he should use more tact, but the dude is literally responsible for creating and now maintaining arguably the most important piece of the server software stack globally. There’s also a very high chance he’s on the spectrum.
Yeah people can complain Torvalds was rude all day, but fuck me if the people he yelled at couldn’t be aggressively disrespectful in bringing half-assed work to the table and doing damage or at best wasting other’s people time.
He’s the literal “You’re not wrong, you’re just an asshole”. But if he wasn’t that way, I wonder if we’d have what we have. A nicer developer wouldn’t get the same attention.
You probably needed someone like him in a technical leadership role somewhere, the problem was that he became the face as well.
And when he acts shitty towards somebody, he does it publicly, where he himself can also receive the backlash from what he is doing.
He’s not attempting to build a reputation as being a nice guy or a thought leader or anything. He is getting shit done, and anyone that’s got a problem with it or him can either go do it better than him or stfu
At least the face isn’t steering the brain like most organizations!
I argue about this all the time, especially if you have to work with non-coders. People who don’t code do not understand the big picture.
Steve Wozniak is brilliant, and had Steve Jobs explain the vision and sell it to non coders.
For Microsoft. That was Ballmer.
If youre a tech lead who lets a group of marketing folks try to define the course of any application, you need someone really strong at communication to fight for you. Unfortunately, Linus didnt have one and ripping people a new asshole was the next best thing.
He’s self aware and for some reason that bothers me less than an asshole who denies being an asshole.
i’ve heard Torvalds be called rude but never “cancelled”.
I think there have been attempts to cancel Torvalds after he’s slapped down some idiot in a particularly harsh manner, but I don’t think they ever stick because he doesn’t go off on people unless they really try to do shit that would compromise the integrity of the kernel and didn’t take the message to fix/bail on something when it was previously provided.
As I recall, he also apologized for the slap down, which seems like it often helps with getting cancelled
Sebastian because most of the shit he’s been accused of has either been fixed openly, or was proven mostly false.
From what I understand, nothing was proven false, but there were things that were not proven true, as in “we couldn’t find documented evidence that this employee was sexually harassed”, which obviously doesn’t necessarily mean that it did not happen. They just couldn’t find a paper trail of it happening, which is understandable.
On the other hand, things like all the factual inaccuracies and whatnot were absolutely undeniable.
How do you define “cancelled”?
As far as I can tell both Sebastian and Torvalds are just as successful (if not more) in their respective roles today as they were before any “controversies” surrounding them were made public.
I like the world building in Fifth Element and Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. But Luc Besson is probably a rapist and certainly a sexual assaulter. I’ll watch his old stuff I already own but won’t put any more money towards it nor support any new projects.
Edit: oh, also he’s not “cancelled”. He came out with another movie this year or last, if I recall. 9 times our of 10, celebrities that say they were “cancelled” just had their feefees hurt by people on social media.
Also a pedo. From his wiki page:
Besson’s second wife was actress and director Maïwenn Le Besco, whom he started dating when he was 32 and she was 15 after having met three years earlier.[46] They married in late 1992 when Le Besco, 16, was pregnant with their daughter Shanna, who was born on 3 January 1993.[47][deprecated source] Le Besco later claimed that their relationship inspired Besson’s film Léon (1994), where the plot involved the emotional relationship between an adult man and a 12-year-old girl (played by then 12-year-old Natalie Portman).
So not only is he a pedo, but he was proud enough of it he made a movie about it.
That knowledge makes the uncomfortableness in Léon so much worse…
Let’s consult the film’s plot:
Mathilda looks up to Léon and quickly develops a crush on him, often telling him she loves him, but he does not reciprocate.
The film: the adult rejects advances from the teen girl.
_cryptagion: “This must mean Besson is proud of his relation with formerly-teen wife”.
I don’t think the rich pedo needs you to defend him.
Removed by mod
yeah ok, creep. I don’t talk to pedos, so I’m blocking you immediately.
Removed by mod
It’s a struggle sometimes, but I think it’s the only real control we have.
It’s a case by case basis for me. Some actor being in a movie I like isn’t a big deal to me, but when someone has like huge creative control over something it’s like a visceral repulsion to me. I don’t want to take a piece of media into my experience with the subtext that the author touches kids or something. It’s not even just that I know these people do bad things, it’s that personal views shape how people make stories etc, and I’m not fond of putting that into my psyche. If they do some fucked up shit in the book, I want to be able to know it’s because this character is evil, not because the author is saying this is a normal healthy thing to do.
RHCP sucks because I think it’s pretty good music, and I was really into them when I was a teen, but given everything I know about them now it makes it impossible to enjoy their stuff now.
michael jackson made incredible music. i don’t even know how much of the stuff about him is true but it does feel weird listening to his stuff now, even though it’s extremely well made.
I don’t think we’ll ever know. I have a feeling he actually wasn’t a pedophile at all, but just felt close to children because he had Peter Pan syndrome or something. He seemed very infantile to me is the only real sense I got of him. Strange person. But without question he did make some r really iconic music.
yeah that’s my impression as well. being a child star really fucks you up mentally.
then again i haven’t seen the documentaries.
I agree, and the thing is we can never really know what someone is like all the time even if we get to know some aspects of them well.
I’ve been shocked by things that some people I knew did, that I would never have thought they were capable of.
I hope that is not the case for MJ, but it might be. And we’ll likely never know.
Removed by mod
Ehhhh, I’ve seen some pics of him being happily surrounded with people known for being sex pests/pedos so idk. Two things can be true, you know, he might have been mentally and developmentally different but he might have also touched some kids, sadly.
happily surrounded with people known for being sex pests/pedos so idk
He worked in the recording industry and Hollywood. It’s pretty hard to avoid in those businesses.
Fair and depressing.
I’ve heard rumors that he was either physically or chemically castrated to keep his beautiful, pure singing voice.
If that is the case, then it would kind of explain how fucked up he is, or how fucked up he was.
Oof. Didn’t he have kids though? Or is there a form of castration that doesn’t affect one’s ability to reproduce? Regardless, yeah, it doesn’t absolve him of his sins but let’s just say they’re attenuating factors for his judgement.
None of his kids are genetically his as far as I know.
Oop. Okay, yeah. Hurt people hurt people. 😕
Removed by mod
Wasn’t this the dude that dangled a baby out of a window?
His son. He dangled him when he was holding him on a balcony over the heads of fans. I don’t know why.
mj was something special if very fuken weird, but the maker of his best jams was quincy jones. if you don’t know him, spend some time investigating his catalog.
He was an incredibly talented artist. I think his father deserves most of the blame for Michael’s bizarre behavior. Most adults would struggle with the pressures of fame and performing that he spent his whole life under from the time he was like 10 years old. Joe recognized that his kids were talented and then proceeded to squeeze every last red cent he could out of them. No wonder Michael snapped.
The fact that he had to pay a family hush-money was incredibly suspicious enough.
I don’t give a shit about Michael Jackson. Except maybe his upbringing with his piece of shit father has had something to do with how he’d later behave. Glad Joe is dead.
If you’re a slightly creepy odd duck with large amounts of money, it’d make sense to pay a settlement rather than letting a case go to trial even if you’re innocent, because juries can be wayward, especially in civil cases, and the reputational damage can easily cost you more than the settlement. So I don’t buy the no smoke without fire theory, especially with the proven cases of shakedown artists abetted by contingency-fee slimebag lawyers.
I lean towards the view that MJ was a wrong 'un, but also wouldn’t be surprised if it came out that he was just a twisted, damaged, traumatized, socially isolated guy.
Removed by mod
There is a line, I don’t have to love and agree with them on everything to enjoy an actor, but I refuse to support predators. Things like David Harbor cheating on his wife or the things people slammed Paul Reubens for I could really care less about, and I don’t give a fuck about their politics so long as they aren’t doing shit like J.K. Rowling and actively trying to ruin lives, however people like Diddy, Gaiman (whom I had personally loved for years), or Jared Leto can fuck off and die.
