I’ve lived in paris for 5/6 years, I was fluent when I arrived (years of international school) and my mom had already been living here for several years. Still, it was a big culture shock and adjustment and absolutely levelled up my French to the point where now French people usually assume I am from here.
The problem is even with all that, I just don’t feel at home. Some cultural differences feel insurmountable, the blasé and critical attitude is difficult for me, I’ve always been very high energy and jokey and have a hard time finding people in everyday life who match that energy. Whenever I go back to the states I feel so fulfilled and like myself and it really makes me question why I’m here. I have a very cool job in the non-profit sector, so not super well-paid, and a very stable loving relationship, my apartment, my mom… there’s still something where I feel like I’ll never fully be accepted here. I feel like my American-ness immediately puts me down in peoples’ eyes, I feel like I will never write perfectly or totally grasp codes and it will always take me a slight extra effort to understand things that are easy for people here. I don’t get cultural references and I don’t know the clichés of every tiny town and region.
I’m from New York so I liked living here because I felt that Paris was such a better cost of living/quality of life ratio, and I love the work-life balance and accessibility of culture. However, what use are my 5 weeks of vacation if I spend half of them going back home? And probably, I always will, because my missing home will never go away, my friends and family there will keep getting married or getting sick or just being there ?
And France’s descent into xenophobic fascism is not helping. I know all the issues in the US, but it’s different, I am from there and always will be, whereas I am actively choosing to live in France and contribute to its economy.
Just feeling like the jig is up and I did what I had to do, and now I can leave. This is just venting, don’t know if anyone here can relate, if this is a bump in the road or a red alert.
I hear you. I’d like to let go of my “outsider” feeling, but they won’t let me, lol. It’s clear that I’m foreign and will always be, even after obtaining nationality, but I don’t need it pointed out to me every second. It’s ok to be different, but the way most people talk about it, it’s like it isn’t ok.
France is a shithole. Leave fast while you still have a soul.
Some cultural differences feel insurmountable, the blasé and critical attitude is difficult for me, I’ve always been very high energy and jokey and have a hard time finding people in everyday life who match that energy. Whenever I go back to the states I feel so fulfilled and like myself and it really makes me question why I’m here.
Wanna switch places? I’m the exact opposite - I HATE how high-energy and loud the US is. Moved to Scandinavia and holy crap it’s so much better, people don’t constantly feel the need to engage in unsolicited small talk or hustle to earn a buck. The whole concept of “lagom” is core here but would never, ever work in the US, Americans are too obsessed with consumerism. And that’s not even touching on the obsession with hyper-individuality - it’s like everyone in the country is suffering from main character syndrome.
Previously lived in Germany and largely felt the same way, there were more little cultural idiosyncrasies in German society that drove me nuts but overall it’s just a far more harmonious, peaceful existence than I’ve ever felt in the US.
Unfortunately I do not have a foreign spouse or EU family ties (nor an easy path to EU citizenship), and it’s pretty hard to break in without any of those. But I always felt like an outsider in the US too, at least here I feel like a better fit and am less stressed out even if I’m not fully integrated to society. Honestly after several years living off and on overseas, the only thing I miss about the US is being close to immediate family. If it wasn’t for them I don’t think I would ever even visit the US.
Then move back? The fuck you posting here for.
Mah, Xenophobic fascism in France ? Are you serious ? In Paris out of anywhere else ? Where are the xenophobic fascists in Paris ? there’s not more left wing shit hole than Paris, unless you’re in like the 93 or smth …
Maybe you should try and come back to the US and stay for 6 weeks. Get an apartment (air bnb). Settle in. Work remote. See how you like it. Then decide.
Honestly, it sounds like Paris/France is sucking out more energy than needed. Nothing is worth peace of mind. If the place is somehow stopping you from being you, it is sensible to go back quickly. After all, for how long can you tolerate this? 5 years, 10 years, 30 years,…?
Some of us are never going to fit in here there or anywhere.
Can you take a leave of absence and spend a few months in the US? Just to see if you can find a job and get settled.
People in Europe really downplay the whole xenophobia thing but honestly, I still think the US handles immigrants and assimilation miles better than Europe. I’ve actually been shocked at the casual racism in NL and Germany towards anyone black or darker skin. While we have our idiots in the US, it’s far less tolerated.
Honestly, if you want to move back, I would. France is a very very hard place to live for expats. And who says you can’t move back to Europe again in the future. Perhaps sometime in the US in what you needed.
Unfortunately, nowadays Europe is not the liberal bastion of old. Housing issues, immigration and cost of living have all increased to bring about scapegoating and far-right leaders talking of easy solutions.
“Xenophobic Fascism”
Americans think that Europe is the way it is because we let all kind of people in.
No you fool.
You’re infatuated by our culture because americans barely have any.
Hey there. I lived in France for about 10 years (with a lot of traveling in between) and lived in Paris for 6 years. I got my “resident du longue duree - UE” card about 2 years ago. I submitted my citizenship application around the same time but it’s still being processed - in the south of France it can take up 4-5 years for citizenship to get processed!
I still have my own place over there, but at the moment am now in the UK, and am planning to just spend my summers in France. I also spend huge chunks of time in the US.
Like you, I realized in my very first year in Paris that I had made a mistake, lol. But I had put in too much effort trying to get my visa, that I decided to stick it out. That’s what I suggest you do: try to at least get permanent residency or citizenship before you move back. That way, you will always be able to work in France and move back if it’s ever needed. You never know what the future holds.
I never really assimilated, and just barely passed my French language test at the B2 level. I spoke no French when I first moved there (aside from knowing how to count from 1 - 10). All my friends in France are foreign and English-speaking (even if they speak French, they’re from somewhere else like Algeria or they’ve lived abroad).
That said, I do like having had all that life experience. I never regret having spent time there. Hopefully you will view your time in France the same way in the future.
I wish I had had more self-confidence in myself to have been able to be more social. I was too bogged down in self-doubt and feeling like an outsider, to really be able to pursue hobbies. It’s like that whole decade was a healing phase for me and I chose one of the most challenging locations to live - I intentionally put myself in the position of being an outsider.
I feel I don’t really fit anywhere. So the best thing for me to do, right now, is to split time between these 3 countries, absorbing the best of each.
Please correct yourself, you’re an immigrant.
I’d say if you enjoy French and want to be close to NY, look north and try to get a job in Quebec.
Fair enough. Do it. Home is home, no matter how many other homes you’ve had.
I used to live in Germany and Denmark, but made the mistake of coming back home to the states with a one way ticket, where my parents moved to Minnesota. I tried to go back but didn’t have the funds. After getting caught smoking hash in my little brothers room, they kicked me out and I had to go find a job. I jumped from one shitty job to the next, rented rooms until I found a super cheap warehouse space in downtown Mpls. where I started my woodworking company. Today 37 years later, I still have that company, 2 houses, 2 parcels of land up north, one for hunting, the other for fishing. I took the cards I was dealt and made the best of them. I do wish I had gone back to Europe though. I know I’d most likely still be there today, most likely with my own woodworking company. I wouldn’t be caught up in the materialistic lifestyle that we have here, and would be seeing more of the world. I’d certainly be having more sex as well and not committed to just one woman, and that would be accepted. I’d certainly be more active too, going to see historical sites around Europe, art shows, festivals and the like. No, here in Minnesota, life is definitely different. While I do enjoy my nice big woodworking shop, life is pretty boring otherwise. There’s simply nowhere interesting to go around here, and not many attractions. Wife and I do get out to concerts from time to time, I sell my wares at festivals, but I think I miss the travel, historical and art scenes in Europe the most. I’m not a sports fan at all, and would never wear anything advertising a brand. Yet all my “friends” here are that way. They always wear Viking or Twins shirts, talk sports all day long. They can’t talk about anything else with an active interest. That’s what I miss about Europe. The people are more culturally diverse and know a lot more, and are interested in a lot more. They also are more interested in you as a person unlike here. Here, my own family (except my dad), hasn’t asked me about my job or what I’m up to in the 38 years I have been back. They just don’t care, but will gladly tell you all about their boring lives when asked. And I do ask them about what they are doing, just don’t expect the same favor. In short, Minnesotans are a weird lot. Tough to really get to know them as it takes years upon years, and then you’ll never really get to know them too well anyway. Oh and they are either way too liberal or way too republican.