wayland will never be ready
If you want to suffer, there’s the
I_WANT_A_BROKEN_WAYLAND_UIenvironment variable which I added in #10200,
lmaothis is the second needlessly condescending emulator dev moment ive seen recently lmao
it’s almost to the level of Linus mailing list rants 😂
What is the first instance?
Needlessly? Some software developers spend a lot of time and effort trying to make their software as bug free and nice as possible.
Unfortunately, “platforms” like Linux constantly get in the way with nonsense and the army of dumb people regurgitating nonsense pisses those developers off.
this isn’t a linux problem lol, it’s specifically a wayland problem. the program works fine on x11 already, which is why they disabled wayland. I don’t know why you’re acting like linux is some weird fake platform that nobody uses, this is literally the linux gaming sub. 12 year olds regurgitating BS is universal regardless of platform
this isn’t a linux problem lol, it’s specifically a wayland problem
Which, given where the Linux desktop world is going, effectively makes it a Linux problem.
Yes I know I know, it’s all made up of a bunch of different projects all working in tandom, GNU+Linux+Wayland+systemd+KDE+whatever. But at the end of the day, if one critical system component fails, it all fails.
sure except for the fact that by just using xwayland the problem was solved. the main problem in this situation was just people not reading the devs posts and commenting stuff anyways. not having wayland won’t save you from that. Original commenter implied that linux was somehow preventing the devs from making s functional application in general
Yeah and ideally we’d be making a transition to Wayland soon, where Devs can stop even thinking about X as new software is made. Sadly the state of things for the last… 14 years? Has not made that possible.
People who complain about his language more than the actual issues he brings up are even more tedious.
I mean there’s not much to say about the issues he brings up. He’s right, not much to do about it. The fact that wayland lacks both a consistent implementation and basic windowing features is pretty much just the way it is, which is what he pointed out
Yes, but even that gets lost in the “OMG he said swear words” feigned pearl clutching. We’re adults, we’ve all heard and used these words. People need to stop pretending otherwise.
That’s because they did not found yet out about Lutris maintainer way of communicating
Also this is some guy giving you a premium service for free. Open Source is not the batista at your local Starbucks. If the dev tells you to go fuck yourself, you either chuckle along or choose to stop using the software. There is no HR department.
*barista
People who can’t “do” like to think their talking helps way more than it actually does. Comments like this make me miss reddit awards.
Also this is some guy giving you a premium service for free.
Not just that, but to an audience half made of dumb kids.
You shouldn’t swear around kids.
So you are saying you dont mind verbal abuse as you have experienced it already? okaay
Abuse… of a compositing protocol?
The discussion is about the language used by the author.
Was not expecting Stenzek of all people to be acting like this
I don’t know how it is today, but he wasn’t very fond of Linux back when he started working on Duckstation. Basically saying that the emulator was made for Windows and if you had problems with it on Linux, you were on your own. And the jabs to the Linux “world” were constant in that Discord server.
Everybody can have their own opinion, obviously. I’m just saying that this doesn’t caught me by surprise.
In the PR he says that he doesn’t personally use Linux and that maintaining support is a hassle because he doesn’t use it. So he doesn’t want to support different Linuxes flavors (like Wayland) that are broken in themselves
And TBH I understand him, developing for a platform you don’t use is a hassle, be it Windows or Linux, but Linux just have so much fragmentation on top of it
Ngl my mind was also blown by the amount of “trivial stupidities” that time I tried KDE wayland.
Check out what they did with adding ads to AetherSX2 for a laugh.
And it also sounds like a direct jab to SwayWM’s old command line parameter,
my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidiahttps://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/6797I don’t blame them for it. Look at the people not reading dev’s explanation in the thread and still trying argue with them.
Welcome to PCSX2 development. Same project that had a developer, years ago, claiming that supporting Linux was a burden and that if only Linux was not a support target, the Windows build was much further along but sadly they needed to support Linux.
This seems absolute horseshit because gregory was the main developer for much of the past decade.
Like, he literally made the linux build like better than the windows one.
This is very old stuff in fact
If we are talking about even older events, then no shit.
Linux was barely able to do one job before 2013-2014.
10 years ago it was pretty much the same as it is today. Spoiler alert: 20 years ago as well. Everything worked fine.
Unless you speak about gaming.
Gaming was just the most obvious shortcoming really (I still remember when getting opengl 4 was like the moonshot).
Back then there was all the UEFI sky-is-falling dooming
And in 2010 not even ACPI was half-way ideal
Bruh bring up the “they said shitty stuff 10 years ago so it is bad forever” card, linux 10-12 years ago was WAY DIFFERENT that it is today, it was less used, was harder to work with and overall not worth using at that time.
Interesting that in ~10 years the professionalism of the project’s communication hasn’t changed, despite circumstances changing
This is definitely a reference to what sway did.
Will this break compatibility on the Steam Deck?
No. PCSX2 will continue to run via XWayland just fine.
Sounds like a major skill issue to me
PCSX2
skill issue
:facepalm:
If we are going to continue with this logic… other emulators are supporting Wayland, so what gives?
PCSX2, for some weird reason, lives on multi-window mode
there isn’t another emulator like that and frankly i don’t see the obsession
(tbf, i’m not a huge fan of the new UI in general either)
other emulators are supporting Wayland, so what gives?
Let me tell you about other emulators supporting wayland.
- PCSX2: it’s broken.
- DuckStation: Same guy did the UI stuff. It’s broken.
- Dolphin: As of last I checked, it’s broken. I’m not even sure if they really support it.
Those are the only ones I use regularly, but they are all broken. Not, mind, the acrual emulation part: That works fine. Rather, the QT UIs used to configure the emulator and to select games are busted.
Most people either are upstack enough and have UIs simple enough to get wayland support for free… or the wayland support is broken.
It does great things but hasn’t PCSX2 also been known to have a lot of cruft and architectural issues?
Wayland is perfect saga continues.
who on earth has ever said wayland is perfect or feature complete lmao
Nobody has ever said that, but it’s been almost 15 years of development now and it’s still barely usable. The Linux graphics stack is in a state. If for whatever reason you can’t use X11, due to some mysterious bug in kwin say, the Linux desktop is effectively unusable for some at this point.
I gamed on Linux for 2 years. Gave up a few wild ago. It’s getting there, but it’s very broken. PCSX 2 devs are right, unfortunately.
I still use Steam Deck though. Valve’s got their own little garden now that actually works well.
That really strongly depends on your hardware. My hardware straight up doesn’t work on X11 due to lag spike problems, but wayland works pretty well. It can do everything I need it to, and for whatever it can’t do xwayland is always there. Wayland devs absolutely need to actually implement basic display server features present on every OS ever that they refuse to acknowledge, and gnome devs need to actually get their heads out of their asses and cooperate on making wayland function consistently accross DEs, but wayland is far from bad. It’s pretty good actually if it works on your hardware, and is able to do some things that X11 is incapable of, like mixed refresh rate and multi-monitor VRR which are pretty important if you play games.
“barely usable” is just not even remotely correct. the main remaining hardware where wayland doesn’t work is older nvidia cards, and thats not really the wayland devs fault. every system ive used wayland on has worked fine. Wayland’s improving fast, but I will agree that if the wayland devs want people to actually switch over, they need to find ways to implement things like basic keylogging and screen recording permission management, because saying “just let the desktop environment deal with that” is clearly not going to work.
It doesn’t work well on NVIDIA RTX 3080 or AMD 7900 XT. It works okay on my Intel laptop until I connect an external display, at which point it breaks totally. I replied to another who replied to this post.
Wayland is bad. Wayland is VERY bad, in fact. It is by far the worst display technology of any major platform. It’s worse than Windows and worse than OS X by a mile. It may beat X11 but it’s a close run. I’m sure as more effort is put into Wayland and less into X11 and the committees decide to start being practical things will improve, but right now it’s an impossible choice for me.
As an end user, I don’t really care whose fault it is. I just have a broken desktop, that’s all it is to me.
It doesn’t work well on NVIDIA RTX 3080 or AMD 7900 XT
that is quite strange, not sure whats up with that.
Wayland is bad. Wayland is VERY bad, in fact. It is by far the worst display technology of any major platform.
You are correct, and X11 is pretty much neck to neck with it assuming they both work in how bad it is, but to be fair, X11 is a display server from the 80s that had no business making it this long without a properly functional competitor, and wayland, while it has been developed for 15 years, is still relatively young compared to other OSes.
However what you say is true, none of that matters because why it’s the case makes no difference to an end user. Linux just has clearly inferior display solutions to any other mainstream OS i’ve seen. Only way I can possibly see that’s going to change is if wayland is able to take over, and if maybe, just maybe enough people involved with it can actually realize that maybe their display server should have basic features that have existed since the 90s. I understand they have a philosophy, but its practically the same philosophy as the macOS display server and they figured out how to make things functional without compromising their philosophy like 5 years ago. Even if all that does happen though, that’s a ways off. Hopefully some day linux can have an actual fully featured display server, although i acknowledge thats no easy feat.
Well, the macOS display server just had the right technologies put into it at a very early age. It’s based on work from Adobe and movie studios, and as a consequence it has scaling and colour management which is to die for.
Wayland started from such a different approach. They started not with a look to the future, but with a look to disconnect from the past with no regard for the future. They were more worried about removing old things like hardware sprites and built in fonts than they were worried about proper display scaling and things like that.
I mean it looks like it’s gonna get there. They’re approaching these things. Steam Deck has amazing HDR from everything I hear. But the day this is fixed is not today, and I can’t use it anymore. :(
yeah, it’s a shame the way the Wayland devs approached it in the beginning. I wish I hadn’t been spoiled by linux desktop environments because it would be significantly easier to just go back to windows and get properly functional display software. I really want to because I screen share a lot and that’s a massive inconvenience on wayland, or just on linux in general, but then I have to give up the desktop environment I’ve gotten used to.
How is it breaking further? I’d argue quite the opposite with the adoption of pipewire, for example.
I’ve been using PipeWire for a long time. It doesn’t require Wayland and isn’t actually part of the display stack, but is rather a media streaming engine. Of course it is a critical missing component of Wayland also, which is why it goes well with Wayland.
PipeWire does have problems with crackling audio after resuming from sleep though. I don’t know if the Steam Deck uses PipeWire but it has this problem, too, sometimes.
Anyway, I’ve been through the whole thing before and I’m weary of repeating myself unfortunately. But it’s things like broken cursors that don’t work or can’t be enabled for no apparent reason, broken desktop effects, broken docks, panels, VRR (when moving said software cursor), broken GPU power management, broken scaling, blurry text, and on and on it goes. I’m just sick of it, I’m sorry.
PipeWire does have problems with crackling audio after resuming from sleep though
Or just crackling audio in games in general. It breaks from one update to the next, fixes itself and then it’s back again. Been stable for a few weeks now thankfully… Hope I didn’t just jinx it.
Nice!
A reasonable thing to do, but man if this isn’t a childish way to do it.
How is it childish
He says Gnome is buggier than KDE? How it can be? Gnome is much more simple. It’s bare minimum without extensions.
So after watching Brodies video I have a new headline “Wayland and Gnome develops have head so far up asses they cause project who initially wanted to support them pull out in frustration”
uhm … “Last updated: 31 October 2022” …
I think, at this point, it’s all a matter of making more optional extensions to Wayland and then effectively forcing GNOME to implement them by implementing them in every other compositor (especially KWin). I love GNOME, I genuinely do, I use Fedora Workstation. But god is it awful to target GNOME with any cross-platform toolkit… (Talking about Wayland specifically, not X11)
I can absolutely see what that dev means. One of the most frustrating thing about Wayland is not that bugs just don’t get filed or you are the first to stumble over an issue. Every single issue I discovered that prevents me from finally making the switch (and yes I try, I’m not married to X11) always ends up being an already open issue for multiple years, even with people providing implementations or fixes, but some person just blocking it for various reasons.
And almost always it’s some form of perfectionism from people who probably have all the best intentions and “just want to do it right this time”. So we don’t end up with jet another pile of unmaintainable extensions. And the same people then get frustrated if users mention that things still don’t work for them.
In the end this indecisiveness will just lead to an even more fragmented situation in the sort term, with every compositor implementing their own workarounds (at least the ones who care about things actually working) and the “standards” being set that way.
If I had to guess, I would say we will see an even stronger shift of the community towards KDE, because this are the people who actually seem to care that things work for their users right now and just go ahead and implement those workarounds.
At least they are not removing the code.
That’s sad!
Especially since I’ve been running the Wayland session of Plasma for 3-4 years already and Plasma 6 will be Wayland-only on more distros.
But at the same time of course as I intentionally avoided Nvidia GPUs.
Who can blame them? Whole thing is a biggest fiasco on memory for like 25 years of using Linux. Something wrong with your standard or with you when developers can’t implement a single working implementation for how many? 15 years already?