I (US Citizen) took a job with a reputable organization in France that sponsored my visa. I have a spouse, kids, and 3 pets (pets alone cost $6k to relocate). We sold our belongings in the US and had all just begun to really adjust. However I was notified last week that my employer is actually getting rid of an entire segment of their business which includes my job.
My employment contract does not contain any job loss protections outside of my trial period which was 3 months, which they had originally specified verbally is standard in France and would only end if I failed to pick up on the job.
I realize I have no legal protections as it was my naiveté to not pursue additional contract language regarding job loss during the trial period. I just never imagined this.
I’ve applied to over 50 jobs in a week and have already recieved rejections for most, as most employers won’t sponsor visas for whatever reason.
Not sure the purpose of the post but to say that when relocating, please protect yourself and truly realize how much you’re putting on the line by accepting a job abroad. My husband has not found work either in France so we’re at the point of having to go back to the US, pay all of the travel costs to do so, and have nothing there for us.
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You should blow the whistle on that company, so they can’t pull a move like that anymore. So people will avoid them like plague.
The biggest mistake was probably to fully commit and move the entire family over before the end of your trial period. I’d advice broadening your search to countries that some others already mentioned, like Belgium and Luxembourg since your French might be useful there, and The Netherlands could work with your English. Make sure your spouse is doing the same in order to increase the odds of success. Of course that is assuming that you’re even interested in any of those countries, else going back to the US might be the better alternative.
Just cross the road ma’am. That’s what Emmanuel Macron, King of France told us, poor peons.
Wow. How absolutely horrifying. Pretty close to my worst nightmare. I’m not with the Reddit ‘…no! It’s your fault!!!’ crowd. All I can offer is my condolences, and hoping you somehow land on your feet. Phew. Good luck!
This is horrible.
Expand the search outside of France. Today. Right now.
Start applying aggressively in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, etc. Neighboring countries may be a better fit and quicker to hire. Smaller cities as well—not just the capitals.
Also reach out to your industry headhunters. It’s EOY, but they may have stuff in the pipeline for Q1.
Also speak to a French employment lawyer, just in case. Perhaps they can help get you reimbursed for something else. Could your job not have put you in a different department?
Yes, apply in Luxembourg (financial centre) and the Netherlands. Also apply with techcompanies around Eindoven like nxp, philips and asml! They are looking for good personal.
I was just thinking the same thing about the Netherlands in particular. Lots of English speaking jobs for highly skilled people. Look around the Hague & Amsterdam. Lots of nice places to live within a commutable distance. From what I noticed Americans seem to love it here and I get the impression that the Dutch quite like Americans. Just give it a try before going all the way back to the US. You can then still enjoy long weekends in France as the train journey to Paris from Rotterdam is only two hours. Good luck.
Do you know if there are school counselor jobs or mental health therapist positions in American schools or english institutions that hire expats?
Unfortunately, the Netherlands is wonderful for those working in tech, pharma, and big corporate. Those of us outside of it have a hell of a time. I work in the human rights / NGO sphere and it’s been so hard to get anyone to sponsor. My wife who is a therapist has struggled for years to get a job in her field. They just either staff them with Dutch or EU, whom they don’t have to pay to sponsor. It’s just not financially attractive for them, sadly.
Most Europeans countries suck for legal migration. And companies don’t wanna sponsor visas.
Don’t forget Switzerland as well. They have a very decent French-speaking population.
Look for the UK as you won’t have the language barrier.
UK also good as (new) EU hires are on the same footing as OP, versus France/other EU countries will prefer to hire EU citizens with strong, if not perfect, English (and there’s plenty of them) since no sponsorship needed. Further good because UK removed labor market impact testing for visas, which at least some (maybe all? I’m not clear on it) EU countries require.
This. The Netherlands, Amsterdam specifically has lots of ‘international’ options that do in fact sponsor people. Netflix and booking.com come to mind. But there are many others.
Do you see any of this changing with the election? My husband and I just visited and were so excited to behind our search. Now we’re concerned with the rise in anti-immigrant sentiment and proposed plans to cut sponsorship. We don’t know what to do anymore :(
No I don’t. The anti immigration sentiment is aimed at refugees and low skilled workers. Any job requiring visa sponsorship from an employer is good for the economy and the country. Big business needs these people and any coalition formed will ensure this channel stays open.
Having said that, I wouldn’t be surprised if they cut the 30% tax break/incentive for skilled migrants. As well as upping the visa requirements. But this shouldn’t deter you.
Thank you!
Keep an eye on it. Wilders still needs a coalition to govern and it’s unclear he’ll get enough support. In the event he doesn’t there will be another election. The 30% ruling changes will most likely go into effect next year, make sure you research that.
I’m going to disagree and say there is animosity towards highly skilled workers although far less so than that towards migrants/refugees. We are being blamed for the housing crisis and cost of higher education (when they are actually the fault of the government having an inability to look to the future). There’s also bullying international kids by Dutch kids something to think about if you have kids. There have been so many teens fighting the police have gotten involved. That said it is generally a wonderful place to live but not the utopia you might have seen in your visit.
Try ING bank in the Netherlands.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and your family. I can’t imagine how stressful it all is.
I hope that one day it becomes one of those career “war stories” you think back on and ends up leading you to something incredible.
Been in that war, that “war story” is not worth it to talk about, since most of the people will judge the person for it.
Hopefully OP can get the job quickly.
I’m so sorry—that must be so stressful.
That said, do you have a passeport talent? If so, you might not need additional visa sponsorship for France. If you can find a new job meeting the same salary criteria, you might be able to change jobs without much problem, since you were terminated from the initial job.
Don’t give up yet.
And absolutely consult a lawyer (labor and immigration).
This is definitely worth looking into. Many EU countries are pragmatic when it comes to job losses like this and will facilitate an easier move to a new job. You’ll need someone with inside knowledge of the system, how to phrase things and where to send things though.
And if the passeports talent has a European Blue Card designation, it makes it easier to move between EU countries — in theory, at least. I don’t know how well it works in practice. Still, could be worth OP mentioning it when applying for jobs.
I had a German BC before moving over to NL.
They promptly exchanged it for a HSM visa, because NL as a country doesn’t want to use the BC, according to the employee at the IND.
Blue Card is valid in The Netherlands, so it doesn’t really matter if “the country wants to use it” (whatever that means). Individual companies may have different preferences of course, but from the legal perspective, the Blue Card grants all the related rights in The Netherlands.
Only Ireland and Denmark are not participating in the scheme.
I never once said the BC wasn’t valid in NL.
I said the IND told me they prefer to not give them in lieu of HSM visas.
Yeah that has happened to me too. I was assigned to work on a project abroad and after a short training period I was told that a container hadn’t been shipped on time and that the project had been canceled.
Since then, when I negotiate contracts, I ask for 40% of the annual salary in advance for the first year and the remaining 60% monthly.
Won’t they claw that money back if they fire you?
Sorry this happened to you, however while EU employment laws are strong, the trial period is non negotiable in 90% of the cases. It’s one of the reasons why the subsequent inability to fire people on spot exists. Anyhow depending on your language situation, France will be hard market as hiring there requires proving you can’t hire a local French person for the position and hiring non locals also costs some extra. If either of positions you’d pursue are in tech, look up companies with HQs elsewhere and an office in France, they are more open minded.
Hope you overcome this soon. motherfuckers…
France is notorious for unionization, striking, and claims against employers. Check the union and lawyer up. Record all direct losses (financial and otherwise, e.g. cost to ship goods).
I am not a French law expert, but there are generally three types of misrepresentations in Europe, fraudulent, negligent and wholly innocent. The burden of proof differs on the former two but do a google about misrepresentation law in France - did they misrepresent the job by knowing they might shut it down (being a cause of action)
I think Germany does the ancestral nationality for citizenship too.
Look into Blue Card options now-it’s similar to a US greencard and many EU countries participate. You can also post your CV and profile so might help with the job search.
You relocated the entire family without having tested if the job fits you and the company for at least 3 months ? Sorry for you, next time you need to handle risks and remediation. You hadn’t a plan B and now you’re in a bad situation.
Is your entire family already in France? How long have you been working in the job? I.e. you moved 1 month ago, was that your starting date as well?
Will you be layed off, or will you be terminated in your trial period?
Was it an internal transfer within a large company, or did you find the employment in France by yourself?
What does your employment visa state? Is it valid for the time it was issued for, or is it dependent on that particular job? (sorry, I’m not familiar with EU work visas)
Have you told your HR in France about your situation? Like, do not assume they are aware, but have you had active conversations with them regarding your situation after you received the notice? Could HR find you work in a different segment of the company? Also, I’m wondering, is there no agreement with the new owner of the segment to take over employees? For larger companies in Europe when big chunks are sold off the labor unions are very involved and they usually wouldn’t sign off on the sale if the employees are not properly taken care off, which in most cases means the transfer of the current job to the new company for at least one year. Did you not receive any information on this? Maybe it’s different in France vs where I live, but I was under the impression it was standard in Europe.
I’m wondering if you could have grounds to sue them based on putting you into this situation? Usually lay offs don’t happen over night, you could look into if they have acted with gross negligence on your behalf. You’ve moved your entire life and family for this job, they should have stated that there are a lot of uncertainties around this job before your moved. When did you sign the contract? HR will deny this, but there is a good chance that they most likely had a good idea what is going on. There is also the possibility that they legit did not know if it comes from very high up, but selling off an entire business segment does not happen over night! But whatever the case, unfortunately it will be very hard, if not impossible, to prove in court.
Other than that I’d like to chime in with what others have said. I’m very sorry this happened to you, it’s a bad situation.
But I think you could not have avoided this, I don’t think European labor law has protection guarantees for trial periods, nor for lay off scenarios. So I’m not sure how it would be handled if something like that were to be written in your contract, if the company would fight it. You could have tried to negotiate an exit compensation for one of the scenarios, but I have a feeling that no HR department would approve something like that. You are competing with local employees who won’t need such guarantees if you are not having a very specialized and though after skill set.
So yes, now you need to apply, apply, apply. And make it clear why you are now available (mass layoff) and that you already are in Europe and have the visa, but that it must be transferred to the new company. I believe that’s easier than requesting a completely new visa. It might also make sense to simultaneously look for work in the US and take it until you find a new opportunity in Europe. It could only be you returning to the US and your family could stay in Europe. Or maybe you are lucky and will find a remote job in the US. Anything to keep the cashflow going. But obviously you and your family are on a clock regarding the work visa if it’s tied to the actual work place. How long are you allowed to stay after you lose your job?
Good advice. I know France is not the same as the US but I remember that in the US or some states in the US have laws about employees being able to access a website to see if their company is planning layoffs as the companies have to post that information 60 days prior to any lay offs. I wonder if any EU countries have a law like that. Would make it easier to keep tabs on who is about to lay people off and who isn’t.
In Europe by law there at quite long negotiation periods in lay off scenarios. However, this does not give an advance notice. You’ll be informed that layoffs are now happening in a few days and who will be subject to it. Then the negotiation period begins, after which the final outcome will be announced. Usually companies state the initial layoff number on the higher end, so that in the end the unions who are a big part of the negotiations, can book a “win” stating that only X amount of people will get layed off and not Y like initially stated. Unfortunately these negotiation periods are more of a show for all contributing parties, in which the end result is relatively known by the company from the start. It also depends on what is the reason for the layoffs. Financial reasons, demand for products, or sale of a business unit. Obviously all of these are interrelated, but the driving force still has an effect on how things are handled and what is the desired outcome.
I find it grossly negligent to hire someone from abroad, especially with a family, when large structural changes with unknown outcomes are on the horizon.
I’m actually now wondering if OP got an actual lay off notice, or only the statement that he is now subject to the layoff negotiations. Those two are very different things, but if one is not familiar with the concepts might confuse the one for the other. But again, it could be that different types of layoffs are handled differently. Fortunately I’ve only been once subject to layoff negotiatings. I received the notice that our department is part of the layoffs and that my job is under threat. In the end my job was not terminated and nothing happened. At the end of the negotiation period I received another notice informing me that I’m not affected by the layoffs.
Also what I forgot to mention in my earlier answer, in Europe employers have a social responsibility for their employees. That means that they usually provide a package and or support to find a new job if possible. This includes that employees who were actually layed off are given absolute hiring priority when other opportunities arise in the company. No external person can be hired for I believe 6 months if a person previously layed off could do the job and would accept the job. But these laws can vary according to different EU countries.
Additionally, and this also varies by EU countries, when layoff decisions are made, i.e. in the negotiations on who has to go, some countries take the social situation of the employee into consideration. If France does this, OP will get priority over a local worker I believe. Or for example a father will get priority over a bachelor with the same qualifications. But this is not the case in all countries.
Again OP, please book a meeting with HR and discuss your situation. Tell them what else you are willing to do and what else you can do if you indeed are already chosen to be layed off. I’d also look to speak with the local employee representative that is voted for to represent the employees in the lay off negotiations and possibly with the union(s) involved. You might also want to reach out to the new owner of the to be sold off segment. Again, hard to believe that the entire staff will be axed, very, very unusual in Europe to my knowledge. But I’m no expert on this topic, someone please correct me if I’m wrong here.
It would be nice to get an update from OP so that we can help better. The one item I find most worrying is that OP is still in the trial period and could be terminated any day without reason. But from the lay off talks it seems that that is not happening. This is one of the major differences between Europe and the US. Companies take their social responsibility seriously. Nobody is randomly fired and even if the company could easily and cheaply “get rid” of OP, it seems that they are not choosing this path. Which is the correct path when following the European way.
Thank you for that detailed response and sharing your knowledge of how things work in Europe. I’m moving overseas in 2024 but not to Europe and I’m retiring so I won’t need this but I’m always curious how neoliberalism operates in other countries. With corporations having the upper hand these days and the housing crisis all over the world I would not want to be in the OP’s shoes. I hope, as you say, that they have misunderstood the notice they received.
My recommendation, since this was happened to me but in DR (Which I really hated btw), go one first and stay 3 months until everything is OK and not 3 months period. If everything is fine then bring your family abord. Guess you need to come back home or apply to Canada. UK is not exactly in their best shape now and not everybody accepts to deal to all the papers to re accommodate a foreign
Exactly this. I relocated within the EU 2x and I always moved first, but months later family followed me. Though but much safer to do it this way