I have talked with a few mainland Chinese people over the last few months, and I still feel I haven’t quite gotten a “general view” or understanding of how Chinese people view the world
The people I spoke with were very diverse Some were gay, some were married, others were students, and some were living abroad
But none of them has quite eased my “itch” of knowing how they see the world and their political viewpoints… So for those who have interacted with both Mainland Chinese and the broader Chinese diaspora (like immigrants or those born abroad), what differences in mentality have you noticed?
I met a Chinese guy when I was in Bahrain; it never occurred to me to ask him his world views at the time as I usually just assume most people are just meandering through life, but at one point we did get to discussing the British pushing opium on China. I hadn’t known about it at the time, and I asked why they would do that (I didn’t disbelieve him, I was genuinely curious) and he told me it was because they wanted to weaken the Chinese people. At the time I was hesitant to believe that because I hear it all the time from people around the world: “Oh this group of people are trying to weaken our race!”, but as I grew older and read up more on history (both older and more recent), I realized no actually he was bang on point.
He also told me about an American ‘veteran’ he knew; he said he used to anger him by telling him about how his father (the Chinese guy’s father) was in the military during the Vietnam war and how he used to kill US troops over there.
Honestly awesome guy.
He also told me about an American ‘veteran’ he knew; he said he used to anger him by telling him about how his father (the Chinese guy’s father) was in the military during the Vietnam war and how he used to kill US troops over there.
Lmao!
Based
Ooh I’ve been waiting for this question for awhile!
I’m actually a Chinese diaspora (hence my username, which stands for American-Born Chinese Marxist-Leninist). (For those who aren’t familiar, the term ABC refers to Chinese Americans who are born in the United States.)
In my experience, the more lib and anti-China the person is, the more cringe they get. This applies to Chinese, both mainland and diaspora. In general, if you meet Chinese abroad, they are more likely than your average person in China itself to be a liberal (due to all the normal reasons, such as being more likely to be of a bourgeois background, Western education, etc)
I’ve met some Chinese libs who glaze Japan and talk about how they hate the “CCP” 🙄 These people overall seem to lead unhappy lives given the amount of cognitive dissonance they have to deal with when trying to explain how it is China is able to have much better public transport compared to the US for example lol
The diaspora are not much better either. I have unfortunately never met another fellow ABC that actually has based politics on China. They overwhelmingly treat the CPC with contempt and complain about “authoritarianism” and how they are so glad their family left China and other weird stuff. Many of them in university joined the Taiwanese club or whatever since they felt ashamed to be descended from mainland Chinese immigrants 🤦♂️
Speaking of Taiwan, I’ve noticed that Taiwanese locals and diaspora almost universally have this anti mainland China attitude. I’ve met quite a few of them and when I asked them if they’ve ever been to the mainland, they all said no and all seem like they are quite scared of the idea of even doing so. They seem quite uncomfortable when I tell them they should and that mainland China is actually quite nice to visit.
Similar cringe comes from Hong Kong diaspora. I met one guy who was born and raised in Hong Kong until 2019, right around the protests, and his family moved to the United Kingdom after that. He could only complain about how bad life in the UK is and how he always dreaded having to go back home, but he still views China negatively. I honestly don’t know if I should feel sorry or if I should just laugh as these people increasingly feel “oppressed” about Hong Kong and its development.
Finally, the part where I talk about Chinese in China! While there are plenty of people who are not particularly political, there were some who were quite vocal about their views and were willing to discuss them with me. These people overwhelmingly supported the government and were not afraid of telling the truth on how they viewed China’s development. Unlike the other groups mentioned above, these Chinese locals that I talked to actually have nuanced and informed views on the CPC and China in general. Their support of the government is grounded in reality, contrary to the average liberal who wants to dismiss them all as “brainwashed by the CCP”, so conversations with them are actually normal lol. My enthusiasm and optimism surrounding China is actually matched here.
Another fun thing is watching other people being thrown for a loop when I tell them that I am a pro-China Chinese American. Many people falsely assume that I am Chinese Chinese when they first meet me and talk in a mildly condescending manner, only to suddenly realize I’m an American and switch to being more normal. Of course, at this point I know that they don’t view Chinese people with respect so the conversations become slightly tense and awkward, as well as being aware that they view me as brainwashed for having a pro-China view.
Of course, the most important thing to remember is that these are just generalizations. I’m sure there are plenty of ABCs who are like me, but refuse to speak up about their pro-China views for fear of being ostracized, just as there are probably plenty of cringe West worshipping libs living in China. At the end of the day, people have different opinions. Some are happy and have positive outlooks, others don’t.
All in all, I’m very happy that Chinese in China are able to appreciate the progress made under the leadership of the CPC. Given how isolated people like me are politically in the US, I think I honestly should just move to China in the future at this point and join my comrades but we’ll see I guess lol
Hello, I’m a fellow ABCml! What you’ve described matches my experiences pretty well. Chinese Americans who have never visited China tend to be liberals or even somehow illegals-hating Republicans. Those who visit China invariably have more pro-China views, because going there IRL dispels all the propaganda and shows the place is a normal country with normal people, with increasingly advanced infrastructure compared to the USA which feels frozen in time since the 1980s.
When I see this, I can only think that Deng Xiaoping’s methods of first advancing the economy and development before ‘perfect socialism’ was right. Unfortunately, most normies are not MLs and so are not ideologically committed. Their opinions follow whichever place has the nicest living standards (e.g. if the West is the nicest place to live, then all of them will be liberals). Thus, it was imperative for China to catch up and surpass the West on that first, to preserve the support of the normies. It is only now that China has the space to stably experiment with more advanced socialism, since living standards are now equal to or better than the West.
Hello my fellow ABCml! I agree with your points about material conditions changing people’s perception of reality. A visit to China when I was younger was what really kicked off my disillusionment with liberalism and got me questioning my old anti-China views haha. There are very few instances of my worldview being so completely shattered by a simple visit, and China wasn’t even that developed back then. Goes to show you how strong the western media brainwashing is and how the manufacturing consent machine can ironically make Westerners much more ignorant of the world, unlike what the typical liberal view of there being “free and independent media” in the West. Curious if you also had a similar deprogramming moment or if you have always been an ML?
The other big part of whether one enjoys their visit to China is if they speak the language. By virtue of having a Chinese face, people are going to default to speaking in Chinese. I’ve met a few ABCs who don’t speak Chinese, so when they visited China, they felt very uncomfortable. I am definitely still working on my Chinese and wouldn’t consider myself fluent, but I can definitely say that as my Chinese has gotten better, my experience in China has improved too.
If there is one thing that I find weird, it’s that some people visit China and still leave convinced that the West and liberalism is superior to socialism. They have repeatedly visited, so it’s not like they can’t see the massive improvements in society, chalking it up to China adopting capitalism. Of course, these same people will blame anything they don’t like about China to communism, but I guess cognitive dissonance is the norm for liberals lol
One final big benefit of being a pro-China ML is watching China’s rise in recent years and actually feeling excited about it. Even though implementation may not have been perfect, broadly speaking Socialism with Chinese Characteristics has vindicated Deng Xiaoping’s claim on how socialism in the final analysis develops the productive forces more rapidly than capitalism. While there are obviously a lot of negative things going on in the world, China’s rise has not been one of them. It’s both hilarious and sad to see liberals be in full blown panic as capitalism runs into crisis and socialism has shown itself to be a superior mode of production. Chinese libs who spent a lot of energy sucking up to the West and trying to immigrate here for the “freedom” and who have spent a lot of time looking down on their fellow Chinese who are more supportive of the government are now realizing that the illusion of freedom in the West is just that, an illusion. At least some of them are slowly changing their minds, so that’s good I guess.
Overall, I’m optimistic for China’s future and the future of Chinese people all over the world. 中华人民共和国万岁！
In elementary and middle, I acted like an ‘enlightened centrist’, however visiting China (even before HSR was widespread) showed me that all the countries demonized in the US, including China, were actually just normal countries with normal people. From there, my political development grew from peeling back the layers of why the US spent so much energy demonizing non-Western, non-capitalist nations.
I have visited China before HSR, and after it. The sheer change in infrastructure and living standards, while I see the US frozen in time, is undeniable. Hopefully we can help this momentum continue until socialism is finally victorious!
I love this thread. I love this forum to which I owe my own enlightenment
Indonesian here (wouldnt actually call ourselves chinese because we have lost alot of our roots including the language) i’ve noticed that alot of us here are racists (also reactionary against any lgbt topics but that’s most of the country tbh) though its understandable after the ethnic killings, discriminatory practices by the government from the past (not counting us as citizens,increased surveilence (my gramps experienced this because he was a teacher before), not being allowed to use chinese names,making it illegal to teach Mandarin or any of the dialects), the 1998 riots that caused a generational trauma till now, racism by other people (not really a big problem in my generation, but heard it was bad before). most of the older chinese generation here (if its not just my bubble, these are all hakkas and historically we were poor) have favorable views of China though they have a poor understanding of it.
Just one case recently: I was at a Chinese restaurant in a rural area of the US, and when I started speaking my elementary-school level Chinese, they were very supportive, and encouraging me to go visit the mainland.
I think overall there’s a growing pride in the Chinese diaspora communities regardless of their politics. They see how terrible western countries are especially in terms of racism, inequality, and social isolation. They see the increasing wages and quality of life of their relatives back home, and see for themselves that the CPC is genuinely trying to improve the lives of its citizens, whereas western countries are leaving them atomized and abandoned.
I know a couple. One is a gay woman from Beijing, very cool and is a party member. Has dope politics except gets a little libby when it comes to freeze peach.
Other is a self-proclaimed democratic socialist from Nanking, he’s a cool guy but he’s definitely one of the more boug classes. Lives in america for better wages and says he’ll move to taiwan or hong kong if it doesn’t work out here, but he plans to move back to China after he makes enough money.
He does shit on everything about amerikkka though so I give him a pass on his libbery
The difference in cost of living makes me question whether it’s worth it. Can you please explain this to me or casually ask so I get a real understanding?
Lmao I will next time it comes up in convo, but I think it’s like if someone’s able to save 10% of their salary in either place, the math could add up
I’ve known a lot of financially well off who are poor. And plenty of underserved who were fabulously wealthy.
Overseas Chinese: Cue Marco Rubio on Cuba.
From misinformed opinions to psycopathic desire of destruction.
I once met a guy who moved to UK from hong kong and they were hardcore US supporter and wanted the US to nuke the entirety of the middle east and claimed that especially muslims were invading western countries like the UK and taking over and enstating the dreaded “Sharia law”. He also wanted the US to Nuke china and destroy it.
Meanwhile everyone I’ve met from the Mainland is totally chill and very very very educated about world events and speaking multiple languages. I’m still friends with all of them. One recently joined the Communist party so I’m super interested in talking with them about stuff.
I have interacted with quite a few mainland Chinese people who have moved to the West. They tend to come from well-off backgrounds since the most common way they can come here is by enrolling in a university course, which is extremely expensive. I think this + wanting to live in and fit in the West is what causes them to usually be very biased against the PRC and repeat the same propaganda lines you hear Westerners say about China (uyghurs, social credit score, etc).
Most of them are equally disappointed of what life is like in the West. Some end up going back to China, very few are actually positive and supportive towards the PRC, whether it’s from a more political angle (they explicitly support the CPC) or from a more “daily life” angle (things just work and get better there, unlike in the West).
I only interacted with two. One was a gay guy who was disowned by his family for being gay. He also makes it a point to mention his hatred of communism, but i never dug further. Good at pole dancing though
The other one was an apolitical woman that takes shrooms every couple months because she finds it fun.
Both complained about the netherlands being unfriendly towards foreigners and very expensive
I knew a person who lived in the UK but their family was originally from Taiwan, it was very interesting to watch them move from a position of “Taiwan is the real china” to “CPC please liberate Taiwan” (I’m exaggerating) over the course of 5 years
That’s quite the achievement. Most I’ve witnessed is someone going from “Taiwan independence now, seeseepee bad” to “maybe the mainland isn’t that bad but let’s keep the status quo” which tracks with opinion polls in Taiwan
I live right next to a Chinese family (first generation immigrants like my own family, i think) and they are very nice people and i occasionally make small talk with them, but since i don’t talk politics with neighbors it would feel weird to single them out for politics talk just because they are Chinese.
I know 2 Chinese in my neighbourhood, both are young guys who are students, and both are pretty much reactionary and anti communist. One is from a mainland landowning Bourgeois family, and is ultra rich/privileged, but even then despite being pro western and anti Chinese government, he’s able to recognise that China is better off under the CPC governance and that the party has been responsible for a lot of progress.
The other guy is from Taiwanese diaspora, and is fully west-pilled, hates mainlanders, hates the CPC, wants Taiwanese independence etc. they’re not sending their best clearly.
The other guy is from Taiwanese diaspora, and is fully west-pilled, hates mainlanders, hates the CPC, wants Taiwanese independence etc. they’re not sending their best clearly.
I met this guy (probably not literally this particular one)!
The other guy is from Taiwanese diaspora, and is fully west-pilled, hates mainlanders, hates the CPC, wants Taiwanese independence etc. they’re not sending their best clearly.
Hongkongers abroad are much the same, in my experience. Rabidly anti-mainland to the point that some of them proudly display the flag of British Hong Kong. It’s too much even for the most anti-mainland west-pilled mainlander I’ve interacted with. Those back in Hong Kong seem to be more of a mixed bag, same with Taiwan. Probably more pro-mainland Hongkongers than Taiwanese but this is just the general vibe I got from observing strangers rather than asking.
I used to know one, they were a very sweet person. They were a closeted queer and in a rural area so they did understandably vent a lot about living in China. I still think about them sometimes
Edit: oh I re-read, overseas people too, One was total doomer and talked a lot about “liberating China” lol
by overseas do you mean living abroad, or from taiwan? question is a little unclear to me, but maybe it’s just me
Mainly the diaspora and immigrants. You can include Taiwan but I’m mainly interested in the other groups
ohh, gotcha gotcha, thanks for clearing that up for me!
i’ve probably interacted with 50-100 people born in china enough to glean something about their politics, some of them having deep political conversations and some of them just hints and bits and pieces. even that is a pretty small sample size, and the sample size is skewed since i would say 50-75% of them had pretty good english and therefore were more connected to the english-speaking world, but diversity is still the name of the game.
i’ve spoken with chinese people who told me that mao was a literal king with concubines, and i’ve spoken with chinese people that were so inspired by the CPC that they wanted to become party members. i’ve spoken with chinese people that wanted to learn management and governance from the west’s experience, and i’ve spoken with chinese people that probably had such a burning hatred for the west that they refused to speak in english with me. i’ve spoken with chinese people that were casually marxist because it was taught to them in school, and i’ve spoken with chinese people who were casually liberals but still interested in hearing my marxist point of view. i’ve spoken with mainland chinese who parroted tiananmen tank man nonsense, and i’ve spoken with mainland chinese who told me the detailed contextual history of the tiananmen protests. so, there is still huge variation and a plethora of different opinions, and i am certainly not an expert in terms of what chinese people generally think. here are a few things i have noticed, though:
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like most places in the world, the majority of chinese people i interacted with are not very into politics. of course, everyone has political opinions everywhere, but most are not that devoted or interested in this or that political theory. again, like most places in the world, the majority of people are concerned with their material interests. on the mainland this primarily involves the high cost of having children, the challenging job market, overworking culture, and the unfairness of uneven development within china in the past several decades. this is the yardstick by which people measure their own conditions, and the conditions of others.
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again, i’m working with a small sample size, but from what i can glean people from taiwan tend to have stronger and more defiant political opinions, especially in the younger generation. i have seen very subtle contradictions between mainland chinese and those from taiwan that, uh, were very interesting to witness hahaha. people from taiwan and hong kong tend to have much better english.
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on that note, there is an interesting contradiction in the sense that english is the most common second language studied in the mainland (a major part of the gaokao is a second language), and yet that opens people up to the english-speaking world which is overall very anti-chinese. even the cultural hegemony of english IPs is pretty relevant here: “friends” is like one of the most popular and well-known shows in china, and i think what a lot of people have used to learn english. when matthew perry died, one of my friends was really quite upset about it and was surprised that i didn’t care whatsoever hahaha. so, i think there is still a significant extent of westernization, especially for those who study english, study abroad, or end up working abroad (increasing in that order). to that point, the most politically interested and devoted marxists i’ve spoken to have been younger people, and so i think as conditions improve both internally and in relation to the rest of the world, westernization will decrease.
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finally, i think most people from mainland china are proud of their experience and their culture. they are always very excited to hear that you are interested in china, or interested in learning mandarin. they will always heavily praise your knowledge of chinese culture even if you know very little in actuality, i think partially as just a cultural habit but also because they are excited to learn that you are interested in their culture. and, once you express that interest they are excited to share things with you, which always feels very sweet and thoughtful. the only people who haven’t acted this way towards me have been those from taiwan.
hope that helps! obviously again i am no expert, this is still a small sample size and truly my mandarin is really bad haha, but this is my personal experience.
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The local chinese diaspora in my town is insanely greedy, very different to what i’ve experienced doing business with mainland chinese. One of the couples is really weird, i was childhood friend with one of their sons, the mom is mean and repugnant but the dad is very friendly.
