If so, was it polled somewhere?

  • Ghyste@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    38
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    I appear to be out of the loop. What’s wrong with hexbear? I’m not familiar with the instance.

    • UnknownQuantity@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      66
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      1 year ago

      They’re just an annoying bunch of wannabe communists who sound incredibly smug and post a ton of stickers in comments. Having said that I’ve moved to lemm.ee when lemmy.world defeterated from hexbear.

      • NormalC [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        90
        arrow-down
        58
        ·
        1 year ago

        Wannabe communists

        There’s a lot to unpack in that one. First of all, how do you even gatekeep being a communist? Surely you don’t hold a degree in Marxist-Leninist thought? Nor are you a hexbear yourself.

        Or perhaps since you have this perception that we are all petite bourgeoisie (mostly white) in the imperialist core that we can’t actually be communists (ignoring how paradoxical that is)

        Perhaps communism in your mind is only for the “orient” and global south. Those in the “West” must just be play acting.

        • Gsus4@feddit.nl
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          33
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          When you guys mention the imperial core, what are you talking about? DC? Hollywood? Wall Street? Brussels? London? Paris? Berlin? The Hague? Where is this imperial core you keep mentioning?

          • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            65
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            “imperial core” isn’t a phrase we made up. It refers to World Systems Theory, a theory of international relations invented by a guy named Immanuel Wallerstein which argues that imperial “Core” countries (think the traditional “developed” or “first world” countries. Mainly the US and Europe) have a particular extractive, colonial relationship with “Periphery” countries (think poor, raw material exporting, rentier states like Kyrgyzstan or Nigeria).

            Then there are semi-periphery countries which are still tied into the imperial core in some way, but have enough sway economically and geopolitically to kind of stand on their own. They have a different kind of relationship to the imperial core, compared to the periphery (these would be the BRICS countries, largely).

            That’s a gross over simplification, but hopefully that answers your question.

            Edit: Here’s a really good explanation of World Systems Theory that goes into more depth

            • Gsus4@feddit.nl
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              33
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Wasn’t aware of this framework, thank you for taking the time to explain it :)

            • PutangInaMo@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              To be fair, colonialism is a human trait and it’s been proven in every large society time and time again. You think the current US/UK empire is bad but if you look in your own back yard it’s the same thing with a different spin.

              It is inevitable, humans are destined for this. It’s unfortunate but it’s what we do.

              • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                28
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                You think the current US/UK empire is bad but if you look in your own back yard it’s the same thing with a different spin.

                I don’t think any non-Western country has enslaved a continent, refused to pay reparations for enslaving an entire continent, and continue to plunder an entire continent of its resources.

              • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                31
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                yeah but the thing is other countries’ policies didn’t inspire apartied and the nazis and their holocaust.

                the US’s exterminationist and segregationalist The US did those thing

                Hitler wrote in his diary how good america was at genociding its undesireables, and took it and ran with it

                The United States: world leader in being the absolute fucking worst thing in human history since 1619

            • Sharkwellington@lemmy.one
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              33
              ·
              1 year ago

              I genuinely would like to understand what you guys at hexbear are about but every time I poke my head into that instance you guys are “dunking” every other instance with language nobody else understands. It’s very alienating.

              • dolphin [he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                51
                arrow-down
                6
                ·
                1 year ago

                Lol that’s fair. We’ve developed a pretty insular culture over the past three years and I can see how it’s hard to decipher.

                • yuri@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  11
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  you guys are also like, just huge dicks without provocation. like all the fucken time. 99% of what i see from hexbear users is either condescension or outright hostility.

                  • SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    33
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    usually how conversations go is this

                    1. I see a reply to a post by a liberal stating a point which we regularly debunk

                    2. to help them see why they might be wrong, I politely, and in good faith, though often with a little force, push back on it and explain why they are incorrect

                    3. they then smugly and condenscendingly reply with a sentence like “Oh, so you’ve come along with your CCP/Kremlin propaganda now / Oh great, the Hexbear horde has arrived / Actually, it’s much more complicated than that [refuses to elaborate] / Actually, you’re wrong because of [link to wikipedia]”

                    4. we then start dunking given that they aren’t operating in good faith

                    perhaps reddit’s typical style of “debate”, where you smugly reply thought-terminating cliches and decontextualized quotes at each other while being variously awarded and downvoted, is more harmful and damaging to actual discussion than our style of “You’re wrong, here’s why you’re wrong with a bunch of references included, hell, most of them are to western media because if I don’t then you’ll start screeching ‘CHINESE CCP XI JINPING PROPAGANDA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH’ at us”

                    additionally, we have no downvotes, and haven’t for three years, because it just fosters anonymized disagreement and even harrassment without any constructive points being made. thousands upon thousands of times, I’ve seen arguments become people just saying quotes like “Well, communism works on paper but not in practice” and “If you sacrifice freedom for security then you deserve neither” or “Did you know that the Founding Fathers warned against parties?” and just a hundred other pseudo-points gathered from a lifetime of being exposed to various kinds of media and irl interactions, without even the slightest curiosity as to the underlying philosophies and ideas and complexities and nuances behind, say, what authoritarianism really means, or whether democracy is necessarily “when you have elections” or if there’s something deeper, or even just the basic histories of the USSR and China and Cuba etc. the average Westerner’s knowledge of anything beyond culture is as wide and deep as a puddle. I’ll even be a little self-depreciating and include myself in that, though I am actively working to improve.

                    no matter how often you remind people that downvotes should only be used for comments that don’t “contribute to the discussion”, no matter how good their intention, downvote systems online always devolve into “I dislike you and/or the point you’re making and I’m not going to explain why. fuck you.” disagreement on Hexbear can only be done through posting and replying, and sorting these things out through discussions (or “struggle sessions”) rather than building up silent resentments over time that split everybody up, and because of that, it’s by far the healthiest online community I’ve ever seen, and I’ve seen a lot. it’s also why we come across as overbearing - even if we had only a third of the members, the site culture of “if you disagree, reply and tell them, you can’t downvote” means that we’re all used to commenting a lot and could overwhelm other instances which are more used to downvote-and-move-on tactics.

                  • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    34
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    honestly it’s a pretty friendly instance all told, we just have p strong feelings about politics and bigotry

                    and admittedly a lot of us have little patience for the worst among you bc we deal with that shit permeating society at every level on a constant basis

                  • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    25
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    I see a lot of hexbear users be provocative, but I’ve yet to see it without reason. It’s in response to someone else acting in bad faith. When you see someone act rude, take a step back and consider why they are acting rude.
                    Not to say we don’t have users that are too quick on the draw of the ppb, but your website certainly has cantankerous assholes as well. Every site has.
                    Hexbear just has an incredibly low tolerance of debatebros, smuglords and bigotry, which I would say has fostered a site culture that allows for a wide variety of opinions to be shared, a deep analysis of current event and which is a safe space for LGBTQ+ members - our modteam is majority LGBTQ+.

                  • Staines [they/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    15
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Hexbear - “that’s true, I see how our culture can be hard to decipher”

                    Lemmylib - “you guys are huge dicks without provocation”

                    Hexbear - oh well fuck you then :)

                    Lemmylib - “see, so hostile!”

                    If we respond to people being needlessly aggro with quip derision it’s “so uncivil!” If we respond to people in good faith by trying to explain our differing views it’s “wow im not going to read that!”

                    So what should we do?

              • Doubledee [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                46
                arrow-down
                9
                ·
                1 year ago

                Honestly your best bet is probably to do some reading first, unfortunately. A lot of Hexbear dialect is that way because it’s tied to concepts that come from books and thinkers we’re broadly familiar with.

                If you’re more into video stuff you could try this guy. I think he’s pretty approachable.

                Actually if you went into the megathreads and asked most people would probably give you suggestions too. We are fiesty but in my experience we also like to be helpful to people with questions.

              • Venus [she/her]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                42
                arrow-down
                6
                ·
                1 year ago

                We’re literally just communists. Read any introductory text to communism and 99% of what we say will make sense in context.

                  • Nama [he/him]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    48
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    I’ll oversimplify a bit, but here you go. In economic terms, liberalism is a market oriented economy, and the current iteration of neoliberalism is marked by social welfare cuts and tax cuts for the rich with “trickle down” effect in mind (allegedly). That ideology is shared by both the democratic and republican parties. The difference between communists and liberals in the sense the word is most often used, is that economic approach, and from that perspective both liberals and conservatives are “liberal”.

                    Now the common use of the word is a bit different, but that’s almost exclusively US from what I can tell. Hexbear is also international though, and liberal is a common term for right wingers where I’m from for example.

                    Hope I could help.

                  • SpookyGenderCommunist [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    40
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Liberalism has a couple of different definitions. The one you’re thinking of is the one in US politics where “Liberal” is synonymous with "Left’. This isn’t how it’s being used here though.

                    Liberalism, as a broad ideological trend that came out of the enlightenment, contains within it, Conservatism. Conservatism was theorized by people like Edmund Burke who, seeing that the previous feudal hierarchy was dying off, sought to preserve it, at least as much as was possible, by accepting Liberal notions of property rights and capitalism.

                    So, instead of a social hierarchy being ordained by God, it’s decided by the market, and social conflict is meditated through the liberal, Lockean, Republic.

                    So when we call Trump a liberal, we mean it in this broad sense. He’s still a conservative, but conservatism is a subset of capital L Liberalism.

                    This is in contrast to Leftism, which also contains a lot of things within it, but breaks from a lot of the philosophical assumptions that undergird Liberalism.

              • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                34
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                If you ask good faith questions and give context for why “Hey, I’m a liberal and I don’t understand X could you explain what you mean?”

                You WILL get excellent engagement and people will give you very good answers

                its easy, and if you genuinely want to learn give it a shot

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                31
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                New tagline dropped @CARCOSA@hexbear.net

                Seriously though you are more than welcome to ask, I would recommend the news mega. If you ask questions in gold faith there’s a wealth of users willing to interact with you

              • epicspongee [they/them, he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                12
                ·
                1 year ago

                To be clear in the dunking threads folks are not usually engaging in good faith with us. When I was on another server and replied with actual questions to stuff everyone was incredibly nice to me and explained stuff super well. Can agree though that folks can see dunking as alientating. I promise though if you can get past that it’s one of the friendliest communities I’ve found on the web.

          • HornyOnMain [she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            56
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            1 year ago

            The imperial core is the countries that have been most involved in the imperialist plunder of other nations, so that would be the US, Canada, UK, France, Belgium, Germany, etcetera

          • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            38
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            You know how any time there’s a map where it colors countries who vote on UN resolutions, or countries where you can be thrown in jail for being poor, etc etc etc etc, you know how its usually a very similar map with US Europe and western allies on one side, and the entire rest of the world (the other 6.5 billion people) on the other?

            Yeah, that teeny group that seems to always get its way controlling global politics is the imperial core.

          • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            18
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Another user already explained world systems theory, but there’s also the school of global historical materialism, that analyses the relationship and structure of the imperial core/triad and the periphery/global south. Samir Amin was a leading figure in that, he also coined the term “Eurocentrism”. You can find quite a few recordings of his lectures for free on YouTube, or pirate his books (he’s dead now, so it’s not like he’d get the money anyways).

        • UnknownQuantity@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’ve grown up under a communist government in a socialist republic. So while I have no degree in Marxism-Leninism, I can assure you that all of my schooling was infused with it. Same goes for most of popular culture. I don’t despise communism, as is often the case with people like me, the idea is noble, if utopian. The ideology, like all ideologies, is scary for its intolerance and disregard of human nature. I will therefore gatekeep any pure ideolog, just to save my own faith in humanity.

        • UnknownQuantity@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          My apologies, I was generalising. I’ve had perfectly normal interactions with hexbear users, but I also saw a bunch of very circlejerky threads populated by hexbear users which I found unbearable (or should it be unhexbearable?).

            • UnknownQuantity@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Thank you for your open minded approach. Obviously I don’t save posts or comments that annoy me, but now I see one of those as a response to my comment (large gif/jpg with no text). Earlier today I saw a post about brigading that was stupid, but I’m not throwing all hexbears into the same basket, a bunch of the comments were completely nuts. I couldn’t find it again, instead I found this one: https://hexbear.net/post/502637 Again, it’s not a crime, people can circlejerk however they want. What really annoys me is when I come across a post where I’m interested in reading people’s opinions one the subject and the comments are filled with stickers. Strangely enough no other community does that.

          • yuri@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            anyone i’ve ever met claiming to be a centrist was in reality uninformed politically and using the label as a shield for their similarly uninformed takes.

          • Shihali@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            we’re centrists. we hold the political center between anarchism and Marxism-Leninism.

            Is that an inside joke? Because outside of Hexbear and maybe 1930s Catalonia, “between anarchism and Leninism” is extreme left.

            • PaX [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              45
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Is that an inside joke?

              Answering genuinely, yeah it is lol

              That being said, what is considered the “political center” varies a lot from place to place, a lot more than just 1930s Catalonia.

                • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  38
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You do see how many of us are being treated though right? Some of us are going in hot, but most are interacting reasonably, then getting slammed with bad faith complaints and accusations,

                  Its incredibly frustrating, I’m sure you can relate

                  • Shihali@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    6
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Let’s tally up the replies to me from Hexbear users.

                    • One insult.
                    • One taunt.
                    • One helpful reply with a little pushback (which might be deserved).
                    • One reply expressing frustration with how Hexbear users are treated collectively.
                    • One troll.

                    So a minority of Hexbear users interacted reasonably, while the majority of Hexbear users did not.

                    I know you personally can’t do much about your instance’s users making a majority of posts in bad faith, but Hexbear as an instance has a bad reputation across the Fediverse right now because of their behavior.

                  • Shihali@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    The more I look the more I see a severe clash of values between Hexbear and SIJW (and most Lemmy instances). Most Hexbears act like spewing insults, trolling, and supporting murderous dictators are blows for righteousness. On the other side, those Hexbears come off as juvenile delinquents wearing Red Guard armbands as they spray graffiti, break windows, and take offense at being told off.

                    Until Hexbear culture quits sanctifying insults and trolling, a lot of doors are going to be slammed in your faces.

            • Venus [she/her]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              32
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              According to fascists, sure. Just because fascists call us extreme left doesn’t mean we aren’t actually centrists.

        • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          37
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          It’s technically a leftist website, but only due to me: The One True Leftist. The rest of them are libs

      • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        You’re a bunch of 4Chan users cosplaying as leftists and some people don’t like that.

        • WhyEssEff [she/her]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          71
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Drats! The one true leftist has figured out our ruse! For three whole years we’ve been meticulously crafting a safe space for queer and marginalized people to speak freely without condescension and infantilization from privileged folks, all as a bit, to eventually confuse users of a FOSS Reddit alternative. You got us. Pat yourself on the back. I can’t believe you figured it out.

        • Venus [she/her]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          64
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Yeah, 4chan, known for being vehemently opposed to racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism, and all other forms of bigotry. You can tell we’re all 4chan users because of how we’re literally the opposite of 4chan users in basically every way.

        • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          56
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          we are about as far from 4chan as you can get, we’re just rude to losers like you who equate queer liberationist leftists with incel pedophile racists on 4chan

          Go fuck yourself!

          (P.S. This is why we’re rude sometimes, absolutely go and fuck yourself)

        • Magician [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          33
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          How are we like 4chan users? We filter slurs and ban users who try to engage in hate speech. We offer content/NSFW warnings. We don’t doxx or send death threats and ban those who try.

          I want to know why you looked at Hexbear and saw 4chan.

          • JuneFall [none/use name]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            I don’t say people trying to associate Hexbear and 4chan are fed posters, but I say that if I were a fedposting I would certainly try to make that association popular.

            • Magician [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              Oh, full stop. I was just hoping I could get an answer about what they dislike about 4chan to use it as an insult against us. Because right now, it just seems like the tone. Not any of the other fucked up things on that image board.

        • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          31
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          ?

          I’ve never used that website, I’d imagine most hexbear users haven’t. We’re actually reddit refugees from 3 years ago, thank you very much 😤.

          Not like that’s much better lol.

          There’s no cosplay here, I can promise you that. I’m bi and communist, don’t know about other users. I know we have a sizeable amount of trans users as well. Pretty sure none of us are cosplaying as left of LGBT.

        • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          25
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          We’re to the left of you. Cope. Seethe. Communism or barbarism, and it’s pretty clear what you’re into

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          20
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          You got us, all of our theory reading groups, real life mutual aid, and threads about loving our trans comrades have all been part of an elaborate 3-year long running gag to trick you, the main character.

          • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksM
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            And yet you would betray all of that work to ineffectively dunk on libs. Which motivation is truly the priority?

              • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksM
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                I’m saying that all of your theory reading groups, real life mutual aid, and threads about loving your trans comrades are entirely insignificant in precipitating a communist society. Your behavior on Lemmy is actively pushing people away from communism as an ideology, and thus I question whether your users are truly committed to aiding the proletariat in their struggle.

                Marx would be ashamed of you people.

              • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksM
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Sure. The people who you are childishly attacking comprise the audience that you have been provided to spread your leftist ideals and accomplish your purported communist objectives. But instead of evangelizing, you choose to resort to mockery and snickering inside jokes, thereby ensuring that your isolated community never gains enough relevance to effect real change. It’s amazing to me that I have to spell this out for you, you should be abundantly aware after being defederated by the vast majority of other servers.

                Your entire shtick is a self-congratulatory circlejerk just for being on team “We Hate America”. That’s not communism, it’s teenage angst.

                • PaX [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  What? No one on Hexbear is on it because we think we’re going to “effect real change” on here lol

                  Maybe you forget how isolated lemmy is in general. Even if we wanted to do that it’s not even possible. This is just our comfortable space in an ocean of online liberalism. We’re happy to discuss politics with people in good faith and it’s great if we can help educate people but pretty much everything important happens in real life, offline. So don’t act surprised when you’re met with mockery because you’ve accused us of betraying communism for not letting the bigots, transphobes, reactionaries, and libs talk down to us and insult us on the Internet in some naive attempt to “convert” them.

                  Also, we get along fine with most of the fediverse! I’m glad we’re still connected to lemmy.ml, lemm.ee, sdf, etc even though there can be a few bad actors. I’m not sure federating with your instance was a good idea though…

                  • imaqtpie@sh.itjust.worksM
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Fair enough. I think you’re delusional if you believe that your users are accomplishing anything important in real life, due to their terminally online status and lack of social graces, but sure.

                    It’s amazing to me that you don’t recognize that the internet has become the most powerful tool for social control in human history, and any attempt to counter the prevailing narrative will inevitably have to incorporate a digital component in order to succeed. But sure, Lemmy is just where you take out your frustrations on the libs after a hard day’s work ineffectively unionizing and canvassing for irrelevant leftist politicians. Good luck with that, you’re really making a difference 👏

        • brain_in_a_box [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Comments like this have really shown me that liberals don’t actually care about beliefs at all (hexbear having diametrically opposed beliefs to 4chan). They only care about tone.

          • ruckblack@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Why yes, groups of people who act like a bunch of dogpiling 4chan trolls typically don’t have their beliefs respected or acknowledged. Tone is important. Glad we could help you come to that realization.

      • Ghyste@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Understood. And I know there are groups on pretty much every instance that ruin things for everyone else. I don’t want to judge any full instance from the actions of a minority.

    • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      42
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Lots of tankies from what I’m seeing, they’re the “alt-left” if you will, they believe in just as much weird stuff as the alt-right but are on the left side of the spectrum… Heck they end up meeting on many things…

      • Doubledee [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        76
        arrow-down
        22
        ·
        1 year ago

        Could you provide an example of Hexbears agreeing with the alt-right about something specific? I think a lot of people conflate “disagreeing with the liberal consensus” with “thinking a MAGA thing” when they’re really pretty different.

        • McNasty@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          Mostly about China and North Korea.

          Alt right and alt left both deny Uyghur camps, and think Kim Jong Un is pretty awesome.

          • Doubledee [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            67
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            In my experience alt right folks are pretty anti China, to the point where that is often the reason they oppose the Ukraine war, as it is dividing the attention of the Christian west from the rising, menacing Tigers that threaten white society.

            Hexbears are often skeptical of Adrian Zenz who is usually the source of claims about China. Most that I’ve seen acknowledge that there are camps (China openly says it is running programs to deradicalize separatists and fundamentalists in the region), but disagree that they are as bad as western media depicts them, and would probably argue that western nations are concern trolling about the issue regardless because it is easy to question whether American foreign policy is motivated by concern for Muslims. Genuinely curious, who is an alt-right guy who doesn’t think there are camps in Xinjiang? I’ve never encountered a pro-Chinese reactionary.

            As to Korea I thought MAGA types just memed about Kim Jong Un because Trump sort of got along with him. Hexbears think that the Korean War was bad and that Korea is acting predictably given that a nuclear power is constantly threatening them with annihilation. There are a variety of positions in Hexbear on the DPRK though, and I can’t really account for all of them, but I think they arise out of a genuine anti-imperial and anti-war sentiment, and a healthy doze of skepticism of western narratives of a state enemy. I don’t think you could say that for the alt right.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Last I checked the alt right believes them same claims about the world that dems do in terms of the supposed camps, they just think they are good because the alt right hates muslims

          • Doubledee [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            40
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            Could you be more specific?

            I think, for example, that most alt-right types oppose the war either because of chauvinistic beliefs about American boys and American blood and treasure being spent on foreigners, or because they would like to work together with Russia to counter China and think a war with them hurts the white struggle against the eastern hordes. No one on hexbear would defend either of those positions.

            It needs to be more specific than “both of you are against continuing the war.” Just like it wouldn’t be fair for me to accuse you of being alt- right because you and them both agree that there weren’t WMDs in Iraq and that that invasion was sold on false pretenses. You might both technically agree but it would be missing the point.

            • Estiar@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              It’s theories about how spheres of influence work, that Russia has a right to take over Ukraine, or at least override it politically. Very much similar to Kissinger’s Great power politics in the days of the USSR. It’s somewhat different than the Russian right which is their divine right to Empire, over the Ukrainians and the Poles and Slavic countries in general. The ideologues Ivan Ilyin and Karl Schmidt influence that part. But notably, both parts believe that there’s a place that Russia must dominate in Europe, and that other great powers must not interfere there. Leftists also are influenced by these theories, especially when they remember the reaches of the Iron Curtain far into Central Europe. The USSR had a history of intervening into the politics of its satellite states. Notably in Hungary when there were democratic protests, they sent in tanks to quell the uprising. This theory echoes in 2014 when the Ukrainians changed their government, and Russia invades and annexes Crimea. Many on the far left and far right see the massive protests as creeping American influence that does not belong in the region. They fear NATO expansion as it is a threat to Russia; In the west it’s Russia itself, and in Russia, it’s Russian greatness in Empire.

              • Doubledee [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                22
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                I’m sorry, I’m not sure I understand. Liberals don’t believe that countries exert influence on other countries around them? You think Joe Biden objects to the concept of spheres of influence? You brought up Kissinger, you don’t think US foreign policy is operating under the logic of realpolitik? I’m not sure what the alternative is to believing that countries act to pursue their interests in other countries. That just sounds like a description of the concept of foreign policy.

              • RedDawn [he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                notably in Hungary when there were democratic protests

                You’re talking about the fascist uprising where they went around marking the houses of Jews and Communists for extermination, like only a decade after the Soviets saved the world from Hitler?

            • MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              How is being pro russia and wanting war to end in any way compatible though? They invaded Ukraine. They literally started a war. That’s a pretty disgusting deflection tbh

              • 420LetPobedy [none/use name]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                16
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                NATO/US started the war when they couped the democratically elected Ukrainian government in 2014, and when the US installed regime started bombing civilians in the Donbass

                • MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Oh so Russia is just saving Ukrainians from US imperialism by bombing them and committing war crimes. Thank god for our wonderful leader putin o7

                  • 420LetPobedy [none/use name]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    12
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Where did I say any of that? I was simply correcting the poster about who the original instigators of the conflict were, and pointing out the fact that the banderite regime has been killing innocent Ukrainians for years, history did not begin in February 2022

                    Acknowledging the US’s role in creating the conflict and the crimes of the regime they installed is not the same as supporting Russia’s actions

              • Venus [she/her]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                17
                arrow-down
                10
                ·
                1 year ago

                Russia started a war. Ukraine has two choices. Surrender and end the bloodshed, or fight tooth and nail and pour more innocent people into the meat grinder and then surrender. There is not a third option. Obviously they should choose the former.

              • somename [she/her]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                27
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                We’re just not keeping our head in the sand here. Ukraine is not taking back Crimea, or even the Donbas. The counteroffensive failed horribly. Cheering for more bloodshed isn’t going to make a better outcome in the end.

                • Zirconium@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  “cheering for more bloodshed.” Are you telling on yourself? You act like a counteroffensive is supposed to be fast and easy. It’s not, war is bloody and deadly and Russia is not going to call for peace until they achieve their objective of overthrowing the Ukrainian government or achieving a peace deal where they can keep Ukraine’s economic sectors

                  • PandaBearGreen [they/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    20
                    arrow-down
                    3
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Yall calling for the continuation of the war are telling on yourselves. Otherwise you’d fucking be fighting rather than advocating behind a computer for others to die. Too scared to go to Spain and fight the fascists?

                  • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    17
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    You act like a counteroffensive is supposed to be fast and easy.

                    It’s September. Their window to make any gains in their counteroffensive has passed. Now they have to fight against the weather on top of the Russians.

                  • somename [she/her]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    17
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    The only progress the counteroffensive has made is in destroying Western materiel and getting scores of Ukrainians killed. They haven’t even reached the second defensive line yet. The total amount of territory retaken is like 100 meters of farmland. I’m calling it a failure because it is a failure.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                25
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                1 year ago

                They can either surrender now, or surrender when all the able bodied people have been killed for no good reason. Ukraine can no longer win this war.

                • Zirconium@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  “Ukraine should surrender so that they can spare their civilian and combatant lives to Russia which totally won’t abuse their land and people as they’ve done in the past”

                  • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    24
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Ukraine should surrender now while people still have families to come home to, instead of propagating senseless death.
                    You’re also just making russian demands up? At no point during this war has Russia sought to annex the entirety of Ukraine, which it seems to be whate you are implying they will do.
                    Please try to remain in reality.

              • somename [she/her]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                25
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                Do you think we’re in charge of the Russian military? The war is going to end eventually one way or another. We might as well push for the path that preserves Ukrainian lives.

                • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Are we in charge of the Ukrainian military? Not that it really matters, but still.

                  Russia can unilaterally end the conflict. Ukraine cannot (yet). Calling on Ukrainians to surrender while they still want to defend themselves is cowardice. I would rather support their continued struggle.

                  • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    4
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    You just insulted me with the sole thrust being that I’m not in your echo chamber.

                    I’m referencing real world events. Do you not believe Ukraine broke both Minsk I and II as a lead up to the war? Do you not have google?

                    e: And what’s this weasel bullshit where you slipped in ‘Ukrainians’ like I’m going after the citizens and not the government? The Ukrainian people haven’t had a legitimate government since 2014 when the one they actually elected themselves was deposed in a far right western backed coup.

              • RedDawn [he/him]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                Damn too bad they’re not going to do that, so what should we do about that? We support a negotiated settlement to the conflict in order to achieve peace, you support marching every single Ukrainian person into a meat grinder to die. Which of is more right wing?

                • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  This isn’t about us. What “we” should do is to support and show solidarity with the side being attacked by an imperialist, dictatorial state and help them defend themselves.

                  When the Finnish were defending themselves in the Winter War it would not have been just to say “they should just surrender to save their lives”. The Finns did eventually surrender, but only after they had stomped the Soviet army all across Finland. They continued fighting not to die but so that they could live.

                  The Ukrainians are fighting now not to die but so that they can live in (relative) freedom.

                  Again, this “we should just capitulate to whatever warmongers want” stuff is shameful and cowardly, doubly so for people on the Left.

                  • RedDawn [he/him]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Lol of all the examples, you pick another group of Nazis as a favorable point of comparison!! Wtf. Thank GOD the Soviets beat the Finnish Nazis in that war and then went on to beat the German Nazis after that.

                    Also lmao at calling Ukraine a free country compared to Russia, it’s just as fucked politically even prior to this invasion, now they’ve banned all left wing parties and are putting up statues of Nazis all over the place, fuck off, this has nothing at all to do with freedom.

            • yuri@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              imagine dying on the “war is bad” hill. i can agree on that point, and i don’t even need to politically align myself with real shitters and make a fool of myself in pseudo-public to do it!

                • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.net
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  15
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Bro, this war is totally different to every other war, bro!

                  Trust me, bro! I know we got duped into supporting:

                  The Korean War

                  The Vietnam War

                  The war in Iraq

                  The other war in Iraq

                  The war in Afghanistan

                  The war in the Philippines

                  The war in Guatemala

                  The war on Cuba

                  The war in Laos

                  The war in Cambodia

                  The war in Somalia

                  The war in Yemen

                  The war in Libya

                  The war in Grenada

                  The war in Yugoslavia

                  …but this time it’s an existential threat!! Trust me, bro!

          • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            15
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            “Very” implies you’ve drilled down beyond the very first superficial similarity.

            Please offer two things in which we have in common since you’re clearly not just talking out of your ass.

      • Kuori [she/her]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        55
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        1 year ago

        Heck they end up meeting on many things…

        name literally a single one or quit spreading this bullshit.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                15
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                While I think nay accusation of genocide should be taken seriously and investigated, I do not think we should accept these claims without basis, and we have to accept that despite several years of allegations, no proof has been provided. Both the US state department and the CIA have had to acknowledge that there is no genocide going on in Xinjiang. Here’s a carrd with mainly Western sources debunking the claims of genocide https://xinjiangahr.carrd.co/

                • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Both the US state department and the CIA have had to acknowledge that there is no genocide going on in Xinjiang

                  That’s very misleading. They say they have insufficient proof to say it is racially motivated. (Which is a prerequisite for genocide) But there is certainly great oppression happening there.

                  • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    10
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Both organisations have acknowledged that there is at the worst a cultural genocide going on - ie. An erasure of culture.
                    One can wonder how such a genocide is carried out, when the Uyghur language is still taught, Uyghur culture and language is still freely distributed and promoted and Uyghur people are a prominent part of the Chinese popular culture.
                    Your claim leads me to believe you did not engage with the sources provided to you.

              • Staines [they/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                17
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Why are you linking an actual propaganda thinktank as an example as of Uyghur Genocide?

                You could link any source, but you link one that is staffed by people who’s careers have been purely to lie about American’s enemies and push American interests?? I hope you’re a little sharper than that and you’re just linking that because you hope other people will swallow anything.

                “HEY GUYS THIS ORGANIZATION THAT IS PAID TO TELL ME THAT CHINA IS BAD, GET THIS, SAYS CHINA IS BAD!!”

                Come on bud.

        • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Being pro Russia, genocide denialism, authoritarianism, being hateful of ideas that don’t conform to their worldview, racism (just not towards the same people), the list goes on and on.

          • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            44
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            Being anti-nato does not mean we are pro-russia.
            Specifically which genocide is being denied?
            Define “authoritarianism”.
            Yes we are hateful towards racism, sexism, ableism, transphobia, homophobia and fascism.
            What racism is being done by hexbear users? The mod team takes such things very seriously

          • PaX [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            43
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            1 year ago

            Hey, I’m a Hexbear user and I really think you have the wrong impression of what our site is. Idk if you’re open to reconsidering or if you’re just trying to get a few antagonistic words in but I’ll tell you my experience as a long time user:

            Being pro Russia

            Our site isn’t pro-russia. We just want the war to come to a swift end without any further bloodshed. Some people take offense to that because we don’t think the best way to do that is to send more guns, tanks, planes, dollars, etc into the warzone. That benefits no one except the arms manufacturers and the money lenders. Not regular people on either side.

            genocide denialism

            The only thing I can think of that you would be referring to is the “holodomor” or something similar that happened in the USSR. It’s not that we deny that many people did die in these horrible tragedies or that there wasn’t Soviet government involvement in some of them but that these very real events are being distorted for political reasons by people who want to paint the USSR in a certain, wholly bad, light. As communists (or anarchists), we try to be very open to criticism and new ways of thinking about or doing things but not when the intent is to do historical revisionism to make the people who liberated the concentration camps and ended the crimes of Nazism seem like Nazis under a different name.

            Authoritarianism

            Well, I guess this is true in a way. As revolutionists, we do seek to change the system by establishing a new authority with the capability to make this change. But have you ever noticed how the current system maintains and perpetuates itself? Sure, you can vote (and we don’t seek to abolish that!), but when that fails and working-class people take to the streets seeking change, why is it that people with guns and tear gas and riot shields try to stop them and maybe even imprison them? It’s not that leftists are uniquely “authoritarian” but that we want to use that authority for representing regular, working-class people and to bring about a better world where that authority isn’t necessary anymore. Our anarchist users probably have a somewhat different take on this but one of them will have to talk about it lol

            being hateful of ideas that don’t conform to their worldview

            Sure, there are a lot of ideas that we hate. But isn’t that everyone? I hope we could all agree on hating things like fascism, racism, sexism, transphobia, etc etc. Our users probably feel more strongly about that than most people lol but that’s just cuz a lot of us have been targets of those kinds of ideas. Other than stuff like that though… this site has been one of the most accepting places on the Internet in my experience. Sure, we argue a lot (sometimes too zealously lol), but just cuz we care a lot about getting things right. On our site, we don’t have downvotes to encourage users to actually challenge bad ideas and voice their opinion instead of just feeling satisfied having slightly influenced an algorithm.

            racism (just not towards the same people)

            This just hasn’t been my experience and I know most of our users would agree. Racism gets swiftly removed on Hexbear and lots of people replying challenging it. Do you have any examples? This has just been so contrary to my time on the site. Unless you mean jokes about white people but I hope I don’t have to explain why that’s not a problem lol

            Anyway, I just want our instances and our users to exist together in peace. I know we have very “different” ideas from what is considered the mainstream in the west and on most of the English-speaking internet but I know our presence on the “fediverse” can be a positive thing and that we can get along. I hope this helps you to understand our site a bit better.

            • MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              The whole “we want to end the war” argument just reeks. It stinks of russian propaganda. Russia started the war. They invaded Ukraine. Would you have the same viewpoint if the US was the invader? I’ve seen that comment several times and it kinda starts sounding like a red fascist dogwhistle

            • hakase@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              Unless by racism you mean racism but I hope I don’t have to explain why racism isn’t a problem lol

              🤡🤡🤡

              • PaX [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                27
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Do you think “anti-white racism” is even remotely as bad as other forms of racism? Or even a problem at all? White people already have all the privileges bestowed upon them by a fundamentally white-supremacist society. Making fun of this concept on our tiny social media website isn’t hurting anyone.

                • hakase@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  1 year ago

                  Do you think “anti-white racism” is even remotely as bad as other forms of racism?

                  In the vast majority of cases, no, not even close.

                  Or even a problem at all?

                  It’s 100% a problem, for multiple reasons. First and foremost, it’s racist, so it’s already inherently a problem for that reason alone. But it’s also a problem because your [hexbear’s] moralistic self-righteousness combined with your [hexbear’s] obvious hypocrisy gives people opposed to your ideals that much more ammunition (and of course you don’t care about that, but that itself is also part of the hexbear problem).

                  And the worst part is that, as with so many of hexbear’s problems, there’s no reason for it. It’s such an easy problem to fix, and would give an instance like hexbear that supposedly prides itself on its inclusivity such a huge boost in credibility. If you want to set yourselves up as morally unimpeachable, then be morally unimpeachable! Set an actual example, and be leaders that bring people together, not because of compromising your beliefs, but by actually being consistent, steadfast, and intellectually honest about the beliefs you already have.

                  And sure, I get the importance of having a place where you can feel comfortable and meme hyperbolically about problems you feel are important, and about the people who don’t agree with you. That seems to be the direction that most hexbears seem to want to go.

                  But, in the end, it is racist, and it is disingenuous to promote yourselves as this bastion of anti-racism while encouraging literal racism on your instance and then act all surprised pikachu face when you get called out on it.

                  • PaX [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    28
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    It’s 100% a problem, for multiple reasons. First and foremost, it’s racist, so it’s already inherently a problem for that reason alone.

                    Nothing is “inherently” anything. What makes, for example, anti-black (as contrary to anti-white) racism bad in spaces like this? It furthers the psychological harm caused by the racist material conditions of white-supremacist society and normalizes these conditions. Racist rhetoric is part of the superstructural justification for these conditions that makes the oppressor feel superior and the oppressed feel inferior and like they deserve it. This contradiction does not exist for white people and that is why anti-white racism effectively does not exist, except maybe beyond a limited level in inter-personal relationships. It might make individual white people feel a little bad but it has no material backing.

                    But it’s also a problem because your [hexbear’s] moralistic self-righteousness

                    I’m not the one pearl-clutching over anti-white racism.

                    combined with your [hexbear’s] obvious hypocrisy gives people opposed to your ideals that much more ammunition (and of course you don’t care about that, but that itself is also part of the hexbear problem).

                    This issue doesn’t really give anyone “more ammunition” against us. Part of the reason we do keep these kinds of jokes around (besides being funny) is because it tends to out reactionaries (like how you are being right now).

                    And the worst part is that, as with so many of hexbear’s problems, there’s no reason for it. It’s such an easy problem to fix, and would give an instance like hexbear that supposedly prides itself on its inclusivity such a huge boost in credibility.

                    I’m pretty sure most of the people making “cracker” jokes on here are white themselves. I don’t think Hexbear is known as the “anti-white” instance lol

                    And sure, I get the importance of having a place where you can feel comfortable and meme hyperbolically about problems you feel are important, and about the people who don’t agree with you. That seems to be the direction that most hexbears seem to want to go.

                    Yeah, I mean that’s pretty much what Hexbear is. I don’t think anyone here would want to be “morally-unimpeachable leaders” or even to what end that would be.

          • somename [she/her]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            29
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            1 year ago

            No one here is pro Russia lol. We just recognize that the war in Ukraine is an intractable meat grinder, and working for peace is more productive than continuing the conflict in an effort to further enrich War Contractors.

        • YeetPics@mander.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          8
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Woah woah woah, calm down there chief.

          I have that same opinion having seen hexbear posts for the past 6 months. It’s not invalid because it makes you upset.

    • BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      41
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      If you’re familiar with CTH and the dirtbag left, Hexbear is where they went after being banned by Reddit.

      For what it is when lemm.ee considered de-federated from them they flooded the instance turning a 200 comment thread into 1200. And lots of harassment. Edit: In case you wanted to read that clusterbomb of a thread: https://lemm.ee/post/4543536

      • Ghyste@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        11
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        I had to look them up but yep I do remember CTH. Thanks for the answer, I’ll keep an eye out.

        • Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          What? There’s plenty of nonsense in there, for example:

          [https://lemm.ee/comment/2394714](also, fuck off landlord. Mao was right.)

          From the wiki:

          In this vein, Mao insisted that the people themselves, not the public security organs, should become involved in enacting the Land Reform Law and killing the landlords who had oppressed them, in contrast to the Soviet practice of dekulakization.

          … yikes. That said, it’s online bickering, there’s always going to be examples of bad behaviour.

          As for my own, unasked, opinion on hexbear. I don’t really notice them around. Maybe its because I’m blind to them as I am generally left leaning, I did by contrast notice the EH memes before they were defederated. I’m generally an all/new scroller on Lemmy.

          • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            No, no, they’re right on this one. Killing your landlord is good actually. Like literally everything else Mao did was bad, but he was right on this.

            • Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              1 year ago

              I’m a little more reserved. I would peg my response to their attitude to change.

              If they’re willing to step aside, or even support shelter becoming a human right, then I’ve got bigger problems than them.

              If they’re going to cling tooth and nail to a system that sees people freeze and starve for their own enrichment then yeah, fuck 'em.

              • winterayars@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                If they’re willing to step aside, or even support shelter becoming a human right

                I mean, they could do that now. They don’t gotta wait until the knives are at their throat–though if that does happen, i expect plenty will say whatever they think will get them off the hook.

            • Meowoem@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              I get the feeling if you learnt more about Mao you’d find a lot of things you’d want to add to your list.

        • 4am@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          28
          ·
          1 year ago

          Anyone who downvoted the above post is free to go back to reddit. You clearly do not understand how the internet works, return to your walled garden.

    • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I had some conversations here. They were saying that north Korea is a lovely democracy, Russia is totally justified in Ukraine, and China isn’t doing anything to the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Just some examples from yesterday.

          • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            24
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            The website is a collection of sources with links gathered by a hexbear user because we got sick of having to do this song and dance every time. You can literally go interact with each link and each source individually - they all state where each claim comes from

            • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              1 year ago

              Hmm, looks like the response to the un report is some guy on Twitter. And he seems to mostly handwave a ton of eyewitness testimony and investigations because they’re from western governments.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                24
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                You mean the dude pointing out how there’s no first hand sources, the report is making use of unofficial translations and the report is in part based on observations made by the us army? Seems like a bit more than just “handwaving” eyewitness testimony to me.

                • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  6
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  What do you mean no first hand sources? I thought those were the the eyewitness that he dismissed because some of them hadn’t talked to people about their traumatic experiences before talking to the UN.

                  I’m not bothered by the translations. An office translation would need to be by China, right? So they’d have a motive to mistranslate to downplay what they’re doing. As long as the original documents as well as the translations are available, it should be easy enough to check the translation accuracy.

      • JuneFall [none/use name]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        I went into the thread. You defended Nazis and argued that it makes sense that the FRG (west Germany) had so many Nazis in control of the government, police, judicative, and companies. While there were alternatives (believe me as someone living in Germany and having informed myself about that I know it). You also moved your goal posts and tried to diminish influences of other states i.e. the US (which you nationalist rise above others). All in all you would be okay in the instance, but get back lash when you kept up the way to jump from one to the other.

        That you try to ignore those actions and the responses to your comments fits that lemmy users arguing against hexbear are deflecting heavily from their own responsibility and their own actions.

        Your points in regards to both Russia&Ukraine are also not true (else you would directly link to it, and then there is no consensus in the hexbear userbase neither) and liking the CFR article is also not showing anything about hexbear (who - if you do search for it - are actually linking the UN report as well as the Chinese answer in regards to the Uigurs in their threads and comments about it).

        • JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          They’re coming here. They’ve all got their pronouns after their names, (which is actually a great idea) so it’s a little easier to tell them apart. I’ve got a useless thread with a few in memes@lemmy.ml right now.

          • sapient [they/them]@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            It’s frustrating, because I have pronouns after my name and I dislike hexbear… a lot. It is a good idea to have users give pronouns and automatically attach it.

            Their behaviour has made me constantly check if people with pronouns after their names are part of hexbear before engaging in any threads, because of the stress of dealing with them :/, sometimes I do engage anyway and immediately regret it /shrug

            It is depressing, because normally using pronouns like this indicates trans supportiveness so I feel better about conversing with people with them on their names. Hexbear has ruined this because of their behaviour around all other topics and sometimes trans topics.

            Just hope Jerboa gets instance-blocking features soon ;p, then I can block them on both my lemmy accounts .