On Monday, I was a liberal. On Wednesday, I became a leftist. I will not let my country slide into fascism without fighting back. I have a 73 year old mom who’s married to a woman. That woman is one of the most important people in my life. I’m 51 and have known her since I was 19. If anyone comes for them, there will be bloodshed.
❤️
Solidarity, comrade.
Same here. I have a lot of people I care about in my life in the LGBTQ+ community. I’m armed and ready.
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I just want women to feel happy and realized without fear of oppression or the need to partake in political violence, but what the fuck do I know.
It’s both. Most people have no appetite or aptitude for political violence.
I guess I have trouble groking the difference between “liberal” and “leftist”.
Could someone summarize?
Leftists HATE capitalism. They want to replace it altogether with some alternative economic system (market socialism, planned economy or a combination of the two) depending upon the type of leftist. Differences in leftists also exist based on the HOW of replacing capitalism (violent revolution, democratic reformation and so on).
Liberals ARE NOT leftists. Liberals believe that capitalism, with all its flaws is still the least bad economic system. They recognise some flaws of the free market and think that capitalism must be regulated to a certain extent by the government.
So again, all leftists HATE capitalism. Liberals dislike a free market, but think that regulated capitalism is the least bad form of governance.
Note: I know you didn’t ask this, but just wanted to clarify - capitalism ≠ market. There’s a large group of leftists called “market socialists” who want a market without the means of production owned privately.
That’s kinda iffy. Liberals are still on the left, why should leftist be delegated only to democracy haters? It’s basically making a special definition that isn’t used on any common level
Ronald Reagan was a neo liberal. Would you consider him a leftist?
Also, leftists are not democracy haters. Different groups of leftists have different stances on democracy. Anarchists for example, hate the idea of a state altogether (doesn’t matter if it’s democratic or not). Market socialists want to expand democracy in the economic sphere as well, with the help of cooperatives (be it worker, consumer, hybrid and so on).
Marxist Leninists are a group of leftists that you could say are anti democracy (in the context that you are referring to). MLs believe that a revolution must be led by a vanguard party, i.e., a group of intellectuals, and smart people who truly understand Marxist theory. This vanguard party would form a state, create material conditions for democracy (educate the uneducated, or people brainwashed by capitalists). After the material conditions are created, you can achieve democracy and all associated nice things. Remember, this is in the context of violent revolutions, like the ones that took place in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba and so on.
NOW, I am NOT a Marxist Leninist. I do not condone their ideas. I will not expand upon my own ideas, as that goes beyond the scope of this discussion. The point is, not all leftists are anti-democracy. Most leftists active politically at least in the west are incredibly pro-democracy, want to expand democracy or are anti state altogether (democratic or otherwise).
So which ones don’t want abortions to be banned because Romans nailed a guy to a cross?
Liberals and leftists both don’t want encroachment of the state into personal matters. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule.
Now, what we refer to as the “far right” wish for expansion of the state for “moral policing”, to conserve traditional values and so on. That includes banning abortions.
Yup. While left and right are vastly different, one thing that’s consistent between them is “[whatever] is not evil when WE do it.”
You find hypocrites in all groups. That’s what I meant when I referred to exceptions. However, if u look at raw ideology, liberals and leftists don’t want to encroach in personal matters, while conservatives most definitely do.
That’s not my experience at all - I see freedom-loving conservatives constantly propose to restrict freedoms, and liberals constantly criticize the imperfections in each other’s liberalness. “Live and let live” is a very rare attitude.
Liberal is the opposite of authoritarianism. Left politicies are less capitalism and more socialism. What America calls Liberal is more authoritative than what should be considered central party. Like in the political compass “Liberals” are middle middle top right, while “conservatives” are upper middle top right.
I’m the good kind and those idiots are the bad kind.
So are you saying liberal is law abiding while lefties is a violent militia?
“If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.”
- Thomas Jefferson
Were the people who fought against the rapid corruption and authoritarianism of Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Stalin-era Russia unjust for refusing to obey the laws that told them to kill Jews, Chinese and anarchists?
Were the slave abolitionists in America wrong for freeing slaves, by illegal means? Were women who pushed for greater bodily autonomy by disobeying sexist laws incorrect?
It is your moral duty to resist any law that imposes an unjust inequality to anyone and everyone.
There you go, a call for insurrection, just like the right did when they lose. But ohh this one is done for good where the unjust haven’t even started yet. The progressive lawmaker is working hard to trump-proof their state while the lefties is looking for insurrection. Lot of self own within america lately.
ITT: People who think “liberal” means any one single thing.
ITT: People who think “leftist” means any one single thing.
I mostly upvoted the meme for the energy.
Liberal and leftist are both very vague terms with several definitions that place them both in very different places in the political spectrum.
You should just use other, clearer terms.
These terms are rather well understood by leftists, it’s only liberals who think they mean the same thing.
I see leftist as Revolutionary. The resistance. Quite honestly, I loved nazi hunter stories growing up and stories of the resistance movements and operations to smuggle the vulnerable to safety. I will be a part of it this time around.
Good point. It’s like keyboard justice warriors ranting about racism compared to actual BLM marchers.
Leftists are deluding themselves.
Just like I deluded myself that there was no way Trump could win a second term.
The second amendment was to defend Americans from tyranny. Trump is that. Use of force in self defense is justified.
“The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, the cartridge box. Use them in that order.”
The second amendment was to defend Americans from tyranny.
Oh, give it a break.
2A legalized colonialist white supremacist violence against slave rebellions and native peoples. That’s it.
https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1002107670/historian-uncovers-the-racist-roots-of-the-2nd-amendment
Tl;Dr the Constitutional Congress didn’t really believe in citizen militias providing a sufficient check on federal power. Some power, sure, but by and large the British armies destroyed the militias in the field, with only a few notable successes.
They did, however, recognize that they could serve as a rapid reaction force for wars against natives and putting down slave revolts until the real army showed up. And, of course, militias could be rolled into a professional army and retrained, like what happened with the Civil War.
That isn’t to say a genuinely popular revolt wouldn’t work, it’s just not what the 2nd was really about.
I am saving this.
It’s going to be less of an argument after the US readopts slave labor but knock yourself out!
For the US to readopt slavery, wouldn’t it have to give slavery up first? The thirteenth amendment specifically allows for the enslavement of prisoners. That’s a big part of the reason we put so many blacks in prison.
That’s fair, but there’s at least some difference between chattel slavery and the prison industrial complex. If the traditionally inclined right wing “libertarian” voices that are the sorts of folks the Heritage Foundation hires have their way chattel slavery is back on the menu.
If it actually happened, I would happily support it. The system is working as it is intended by those with the money to manipulate it. It needs to come down.
I just don’t believe enough people really give a shit anymore.
They fucking re-elected him. We know who he is, what the GoP really is. And they still fucking elected him.
leftists very much believed trump could win a second term primarily because neoliberals would drop the ball during the election. we were warning liberals all year.
Deluding themselves about what exactly?
Both can exist.
Yeah that’s the point - the two pictures show two types of people who both exist.
Yeah you have no clue that women actually side with capitalism all day every day
