All the more remarkable is her admission that the Minsk agreement served to buy time for Ukraine’s rearmament. “It was clear to all of us that this was a frozen conflict, that the problem had not been solved, but that is precisely what gave Ukraine valuable time,” Merkel told Die Zeit.
Previously, the Minsk agreement, which Merkel signed together with then-French President François Hollande, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and Russian President Vladimir Putin in September 2014, had been portrayed as an effort towards peace that the Russian president had allegedly later thwarted.
Now, Merkel confirms that NATO wanted war from the start but needed time to prepare militarily—an assessment WSWS has long held.
Russia negotiated in good faith while NATO never had any intention of honoring negotiation terms agreed by Ukraine.
Yes quite literaly if NATO stayed the fuck out of Ukraine there wouldn’t be any war, literaly once again, they purposedly broke the agreements which were meant to prevent war and de-escalate.
Minsk 1 was in 2014.
Then there was a second Minsk agreement in 2015.
Please for the love of god don’t parachute into this war as if history began in February 2022 I beg you.
From where any logical and sane person is sitting, only one side commited a historical blunder of actualy admitting to the media that the Donbas war was a “frozen conflict” when in reality there were already peace agreements between both sides.
Go complain to Merkel for making you look bad. You don’t have to believe in Russian good faith if you don’t want to, all that is necessary is to admit the actual reality of what happened and what was admitted by the west already.
All Russian negotiations rely on the agreement for Ukrane to give up a part of invaded lands. That is not going to happen, especially after Crimea in 2014. Russia has no claim to the lands and any negotiations that require them are a joke.
If Russia is not stopped no agreement will be final, it’s all about the ambition to rebuild the Soviet Union and “compromise” won’t do it.
Of course NATO will not directly engage in this war (as sad as it is), that would result in WWIII. It is convieniet for NATO nations that the conflict is in Ukrane, but that does not change the fact Ukrane needs and is getting support indirectly, because NATO has an interest in Ukrane winning.
Comparing that to China’s “priority” for infrastructure in the original post is at best unfair. And while arms racing in general is not a good thing, the original post lumps that together with support for Ukrane. That is the message I take issue with.
Comparing that to China’s “priority” for infrastructure in the original post is at best unfair. And while arms racing in general is not a good thing, the original post lumps that together with support for Ukrane. That is the message I take issue with.
Okay, that’s a fair point.
If Russia is not stopped no agreement will be final, it’s all about the ambition to rebuild the Soviet Union and “compromise” won’t do it.
But what evidence do you have to support this? We have a short and long term history to look at showing NATO going back on their promises, lying, sowing chaos. Russia by comparison has been reliable. Isn’t the fair thing then to try to make the compromise survive as long as possible? Because the alternative to compromise is people dying. Even if it’s none of your friends, surely you don’t want Russians dying either, right?
All Russian negotiations rely on the agreement for Ukrane to give up a part of invaded lands. That is not going to happen, especially after Crimea in 2014. Russia has no claim to the lands and any negotiations that require them are a joke.
What are you even talking about? Seriously what part of terms agreed by Ukraine you didn’t understand? Please for the love of god actualy read about the stuff you’re commenting before replying, thank you.
Gone with the Minsk agreements, which Merkel admitted was just to buy time to arm Ukraine
Russia offered multiple chances for peace, but NATO engaged in bad faith.
Surely you’ve heard of this saying: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Why would Russia let themselves get fooled a third time? That’s just stupidity.
How does it help? Explain to me how supporting Ukraine a country that at this point now just forcibly conscripts anyone helps civilians. Have you talked to any Ukrainian women that had to flee from this conflict and that they haven’t hear anything about their husbands brothers and fathers? Were those people not civilians? Or are Ukrainian lives just not a thing? I guess it helps if Ukraine has less and less actual civilians because more and more have to get drafted into the army so some assholes can send another thousand poor people to walk across a minefield to get blown up after all if they are in the army they are no longer civilians.
You know who it does help? US military contractors. Ukraine has received 76.8bn USD in 2022 from the USA this isn’t counting various loans that I’m sure aren’t going to be used against Ukraine to force them to privatize everything and enforce austerity policies. EU countries sent double that 140bn USD
This is in one year from one country, we could end world hunger with a yearly investment of 23bn USD to 40bn USD, this would actually undeniably help save civilians, in fact it would save at least three times as much because the population of ukraine is something under 50mil while the population currently suffering from severe hunger is 150mil.
The only reason why you’ve been told that this saves civilians and not you know anything else is because again selling weapons is big business and the only way governments can spend money now I guess, so yes lets save those civilians by forcing them at gunpoint to go walk into a minefield so more and more and more and more and more blood can be fed into this another horrifiyng war to fight over imaginary lines because USA liberty guns or whatever wants their stock to go up.
If you truly believe in this shit, I think this is more of an online cheerleading thing for you, you should join up and fight the aggressor and prevent putin from doing a genocide or whatever.
Projection. Always Projection. The western mouthfrothers can only imagine western crimes and then they project that onto nonwesterners. Pathetic losers.
Firstly you are conflating Russia and the USSR. Secondly, just saying names of countries without context amounts to nothing more than a gish gallop. But let’s go through point by point:
Georgia
Even a EU commission tasked with investigating the 2008 conflict admitted it was started by Georgia and its US puppet government who attacked and started shelling South Ossetia.
Armenia
What? Wtf are you even talking about? Russia has consistently protected Armenia and put its own peacekeepers’ lives on the line to aid the Armenian people. Are you confusing Russia with Azerbaijan/Turkey?
Finland
Nazi ally who went on to participate in the Siege of Leningrad that killed over a million people. Encouraged by the British to reject any and all negotiations with the Soviets that could have averted the Winter War.
Lithuania
Again: what? Are you just pulling random country names out of your ass?
Chechnia
Not a country. Part of Russia. Russia had every right to subdue US backed terrorist separatists.
Afghanistan
The USSR was explicitly asked by the government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, a Soviet ally and the legitimate government of Afghanistan at the time, to intervene and help them fight the US backed islamist terrorist insurgency.
Ukraine
Russia intervened in an ongoing civil war that had been raging for eight years following a fascist, US backed coup that ousted the democratically elected president. This after every attempt at negotiating a diplomatic solution was rejected by the Kiev regime and its US masters.
Russia acted according to international law and accepted the defensive request of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics which were and still are under attack by Kiev regime forces.
China
Wtf are kind of drugs are you on? We’re talking about real history here not alternate reality fantasies.
Poland 3 times
Poland invaded the territories of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania right after WWI while the newly established Soviet Republics were still embroiled in the Russian civil war against the Whites and expeditionary forces of a dozen imperialist nations who invaded Russia to restore the Tsar’s tyranny.
The Soviet forces fought back but due to being stretched thin Poland managed to steal parts of Ukraine and Belarus in violation of the borders set for Poland after WWI.
When the Nazis invaded Poland and the Polish government fled into exile the Polish state ceased to exist. The USSR stepped in to protect the territories of “Eastern Poland” aka the stolen Ukrainian and Byelorussian lands from also being overrun by Nazis.
In doing this they saved millions of people and provided safe haven for countless Jews who would undoubtedly have faced extermination otherwise. The Soviets didn’t even fight against Polish forces and no one in the international community at the time recognized this as an invasion.
As for a third time, do you mean to say that the Red Army’s liberation of Poland from Nazi occupation was a “Russian invasion”? Are you pro-Nazi?
Oh I don’t know, maybe because the same exact thing happened with Crimea. All out war didn’t start, but peope died, homes were destroyed and Russia became a little bigger.
Do you imply that US should not help Ukrane to defend themselves against Russia?
Are you aware there not one but two previous attempts at negotiations that Ukraine purposedly sabotaged on their own? Are you even aware Merkel literaly admitted the Minsk agreements were merely attempts to buy time and prepare Ukraine for war.
You can read the terms here
Russia negotiated in good faith while NATO never had any intention of honoring negotiation terms agreed by Ukraine.
Yes quite literaly if NATO stayed the fuck out of Ukraine there wouldn’t be any war, literaly once again, they purposedly broke the agreements which were meant to prevent war and de-escalate.
Minsk 1 was in 2014. Then there was a second Minsk agreement in 2015.
Please for the love of god don’t parachute into this war as if history began in February 2022 I beg you.
Ah yes. The famous Russian good faith and NATO forcing their hand into genocides.
From where any logical and sane person is sitting, only one side commited a historical blunder of actualy admitting to the media that the Donbas war was a “frozen conflict” when in reality there were already peace agreements between both sides.
Go complain to Merkel for making you look bad. You don’t have to believe in Russian good faith if you don’t want to, all that is necessary is to admit the actual reality of what happened and what was admitted by the west already.
Russia will not invade another country, right?
deleted by creator
Of course I dont!
Georgia
Chechinia
Afghanistan
Czechoslovakian Republic got pacified
China
Armenia
Tatarstan
Lithuania
Finland
List goes on
In last 120 years Russia attacked almost every neighbour.
Poland fought with Russia 3 times in the last 120 years.
Will Russia stop at Ukraine?
Finland was nazi axis. You defend nazis.
Edit: haha of course you have no clue why they attacked ukraine. No geopolitical knowledge at all.
deleted by creator
No. The topic is Russia is a warmonger attacking every single neighbour throughout history.
Stay on topic.
I guess Russia should have let the nazis overrun Europe then
Pact Ribbentrop Molotov.
Lets stay on topic of Russia invading every single neighboring country throughout history.
All Russian negotiations rely on the agreement for Ukrane to give up a part of invaded lands. That is not going to happen, especially after Crimea in 2014. Russia has no claim to the lands and any negotiations that require them are a joke.
If Russia is not stopped no agreement will be final, it’s all about the ambition to rebuild the Soviet Union and “compromise” won’t do it.
Of course NATO will not directly engage in this war (as sad as it is), that would result in WWIII. It is convieniet for NATO nations that the conflict is in Ukrane, but that does not change the fact Ukrane needs and is getting support indirectly, because NATO has an interest in Ukrane winning.
Comparing that to China’s “priority” for infrastructure in the original post is at best unfair. And while arms racing in general is not a good thing, the original post lumps that together with support for Ukrane. That is the message I take issue with.
Okay, that’s a fair point.
But what evidence do you have to support this? We have a short and long term history to look at showing NATO going back on their promises, lying, sowing chaos. Russia by comparison has been reliable. Isn’t the fair thing then to try to make the compromise survive as long as possible? Because the alternative to compromise is people dying. Even if it’s none of your friends, surely you don’t want Russians dying either, right?
What are you even talking about? Seriously what part of terms agreed by Ukraine you didn’t understand? Please for the love of god actualy read about the stuff you’re commenting before replying, thank you.
Telling all ukrainians to go die in war for the yanks is not “helping them”.
Thinking someone is defending their homeland “for the yanks” is a smoothbrain take
deleted by creator
Nuland = yank
Nuland’s hand-picked gov works for the yanks.
If you don’t understand this, it is you who is the smoothbrain.
Assistance with weaponry and other supplies sure as hell is
giving weapons to nazis trying to extend a completely un-winnable war saves nobody’s life
Sending guns to Ukraine to keep this awful war going longer doesn’t help anyone defend anyone.
Russia will of course stop out of goodness of their little hearts.
They will not follow up to Poland and Baltics.
Ukraine either loses, or they keep fighting and a whole lot more people die and then they lose. Which is better?
Where is the option Russia fucks off?
That clearly isn’t happening, so Ukrainians have two choices, which is better?
Where is the option Russia fucks off?
Gone with the Minsk agreements, which Merkel admitted was just to buy time to arm Ukraine
Russia offered multiple chances for peace, but NATO engaged in bad faith.
Surely you’ve heard of this saying: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Why would Russia let themselves get fooled a third time? That’s just stupidity.
In nuland’s dreams
Yes, but also yes. It does prolong the war, but it also helps to save civilians and push back against an aggressor.
How does it help? Explain to me how supporting Ukraine a country that at this point now just forcibly conscripts anyone helps civilians. Have you talked to any Ukrainian women that had to flee from this conflict and that they haven’t hear anything about their husbands brothers and fathers? Were those people not civilians? Or are Ukrainian lives just not a thing? I guess it helps if Ukraine has less and less actual civilians because more and more have to get drafted into the army so some assholes can send another thousand poor people to walk across a minefield to get blown up after all if they are in the army they are no longer civilians.
You know who it does help? US military contractors. Ukraine has received 76.8bn USD in 2022 from the USA this isn’t counting various loans that I’m sure aren’t going to be used against Ukraine to force them to privatize everything and enforce austerity policies. EU countries sent double that 140bn USD
This is in one year from one country, we could end world hunger with a yearly investment of 23bn USD to 40bn USD, this would actually undeniably help save civilians, in fact it would save at least three times as much because the population of ukraine is something under 50mil while the population currently suffering from severe hunger is 150mil.
The only reason why you’ve been told that this saves civilians and not you know anything else is because again selling weapons is big business and the only way governments can spend money now I guess, so yes lets save those civilians by forcing them at gunpoint to go walk into a minefield so more and more and more and more and more blood can be fed into this another horrifiyng war to fight over imaginary lines because USA liberty guns or whatever wants their stock to go up.
If you truly believe in this shit, I think this is more of an online cheerleading thing for you, you should join up and fight the aggressor and prevent putin from doing a genocide or whatever.
Yes, and remember that Russia will absolutely not invade another country.
Projection. Always Projection. The western mouthfrothers can only imagine western crimes and then they project that onto nonwesterners. Pathetic losers.
Georgia
Armenia
Finland
Lithuania
Chechnia
Afghanistan
Ukraine
China
Poland 3 times in less than 25 years.
Thats last 120 years. So what projection?
That’s some of the countries usa and its lackeys invaded. Projection, as always.
Firstly you are conflating Russia and the USSR. Secondly, just saying names of countries without context amounts to nothing more than a gish gallop. But let’s go through point by point:
Even a EU commission tasked with investigating the 2008 conflict admitted it was started by Georgia and its US puppet government who attacked and started shelling South Ossetia.
What? Wtf are you even talking about? Russia has consistently protected Armenia and put its own peacekeepers’ lives on the line to aid the Armenian people. Are you confusing Russia with Azerbaijan/Turkey?
Nazi ally who went on to participate in the Siege of Leningrad that killed over a million people. Encouraged by the British to reject any and all negotiations with the Soviets that could have averted the Winter War.
Again: what? Are you just pulling random country names out of your ass?
Not a country. Part of Russia. Russia had every right to subdue US backed terrorist separatists.
The USSR was explicitly asked by the government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan, a Soviet ally and the legitimate government of Afghanistan at the time, to intervene and help them fight the US backed islamist terrorist insurgency.
Russia intervened in an ongoing civil war that had been raging for eight years following a fascist, US backed coup that ousted the democratically elected president. This after every attempt at negotiating a diplomatic solution was rejected by the Kiev regime and its US masters.
Russia acted according to international law and accepted the defensive request of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics which were and still are under attack by Kiev regime forces.
Wtf are kind of drugs are you on? We’re talking about real history here not alternate reality fantasies.
Poland invaded the territories of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania right after WWI while the newly established Soviet Republics were still embroiled in the Russian civil war against the Whites and expeditionary forces of a dozen imperialist nations who invaded Russia to restore the Tsar’s tyranny.
The Soviet forces fought back but due to being stretched thin Poland managed to steal parts of Ukraine and Belarus in violation of the borders set for Poland after WWI.
When the Nazis invaded Poland and the Polish government fled into exile the Polish state ceased to exist. The USSR stepped in to protect the territories of “Eastern Poland” aka the stolen Ukrainian and Byelorussian lands from also being overrun by Nazis.
In doing this they saved millions of people and provided safe haven for countless Jews who would undoubtedly have faced extermination otherwise. The Soviets didn’t even fight against Polish forces and no one in the international community at the time recognized this as an invasion.
As for a third time, do you mean to say that the Red Army’s liberation of Poland from Nazi occupation was a “Russian invasion”? Are you pro-Nazi?
Why was Obomba and Joe Bellend in
a decade ago?
Oh I don’t know, maybe because the same exact thing happened with Crimea. All out war didn’t start, but peope died, homes were destroyed and Russia became a little bigger.
I’m gonna ask again: Why the fuck was Obomba and his shriveled sentient fleshlight Joe Bellend in Ukraine?
Spoiler: Crimea took place after the fact.
It helps civilians by conscripting all the civilians into the army I guess
The US is the very reason why the war happened in the first place…
Yes. The exact point of this ampliganda.
You can pull up crazy numbers China are pushing for building their Navy and contrast it with EU spending on infrastructure and post-COVID investments.