• Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    Scroll down to see which lemmy users simp for the billionaire class. It won’t surprise you.

  • nonentity@sh.itjust.works
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    10 hours ago

    Financial obesity is an existential threat to any society that tolerates it, and needs to cease being celebrated, rewarded, and positioned as an aspirational goal.

    Corporations are the only ‘persons’ which should be subjected to capital punishment, but billionaires should be euthanised through taxation.

    • YeahIgotskills2@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      I agree. My real abhorrence, however, is for the countless bootlickers who themselves live in near poverty yet loudly support their overlords in a sycophantic and unquestioning fashion. These class traitors, masquerading as real Americans are as culpable as the mentally deranged hoarders they prop up.

      I don’t feel like there’s a way to get through to these sheep-like collaborators, so it’s difficult to imagine anything will change in the near future.

      • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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        2 hours ago

        they have been isolated by our mass media environment being hyper individualized, and gaslit into believing that their overlords and our overlords are a different set, and that we worship ours and the only counter is to empower theirs to combat ours. it will possibly take years of deprogramming to get them out of this. the best thing you can do is produce and disseminate propaganda that normalizes a true narrative: that left and right, male and female, islam and christianity and judaism, Black and white, rural and urban, gay and straight, are all distractions from up and down. how we fight our oppressors is through solidarity of the underclass. blaming people instead of helping people different from ourselves is how we lose.

        you won’t be able to reach all of them, but you will reach some of them. they really don’t know they’ve been tricked

    • CH3DD4R_G0B-L1N@sh.itjust.works
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      6 hours ago

      Since it seems your use of obesity is causing some concern, perhaps it’s more appropriate to say “financial gluttony” as a more accurate phrasing?

      • nonentity@sh.itjust.works
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        5 hours ago

        A distinction without a difference. One is the process, the other its outcome.

        Obesity is a problematic state for an entity to be in, and attempts to reframe it as normal only manifest as harm.

        Where I see potential validity in criticism is the flawed definitions used for medical classification, but that’s an issue for the medical profession to reckon with and address.

        • CH3DD4R_G0B-L1N@sh.itjust.works
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          1 hour ago

          With the silly reactions to my suggestion even though I have no issue with your wording, I feel stupid trying to hold a discourse here, but regardless…

          The distinction is gluttony is an active action, a decision, to consume more than needed, and a sin in religious contexts.

          Obesity is a state of being, correct, but can be out of a person’s control medically, I believe (I’m no doctor).

          I’m sure the rhetoric brigade will attack this as well, though. So much for quality interactions of the fediverse.

          • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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            54 minutes ago

            It can be out of a person’s control… and it’s still bad for them. Nobody here is saying that fat people are bad people, people are saying that fat is bad for people.

    • slappyfuck@lemmy.ca
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      9 hours ago

      Financial obesity makes it seem like it’s the same as being fat, which doesn’t make sense because being fat is not a specific problem in the same way that being rich is.

      I’m sure you just mean it like “fat cat” but it’s a bizarre way to phrase it since it isn’t a good analogy.

      • axx@slrpnk.net
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        1 hour ago

        I think it’s just meant as a way to reverse the usual assumption that it’s a desirable state, it puts it in terms that imply you have too much and it’s not good for you.

  • cheesybuddha@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    Billionaires simply cannot exist without their money coming from the exploitation of the “lower classes”

    • the_visitor@sh.itjust.works
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      1 hour ago

      But they won’t drive you to become homeless because it stop you from paying them. They may keep you not rich but never is their intention to keep you so poor that they can’t get a penny from you.

      • TerdFerguson@lemmy.world
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        1 hour ago

        No, they will. The underclass is the implied threat of violence against you for not surrendering your productivity and your own meagre scraps of surplus value to them as their slaves.

        It serves their purpose to make you homeless to ensure others continue to grind themselves to death.

  • ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world
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    11 hours ago

    Think about it. Many of them have enough money to end world hunger, build affordable housing, give healthcare to a poor country, etc. But they choose not to. All evil is an active choice.

      • 🍉 Albert 🍉@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        it’s a task for all individuals.

        if I had a few billion I could either live in extravagant wealth, or end homelessness AND live in extravagant wealth.

        it’s a choice every single billionaire makes.

      • Lemminary@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        The rich take many steps to reduce their taxes to nothing on all levels, including lobbying, loopholes, offshore banking, shell corporations, money laundering, fraud, etc. It’s absolutely their individual fault for not contributing proportionately.

    • L7HM77@sh.itjust.works
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      12 hours ago

      I’ve never liked how the pyramid is arranged, as if the ones on top are living the ‘right’ way, or are ‘better’ somehow.

      It should be the other way around, with 8 billion people hanging to a ledge,  trying to improve the state of the world, while roughly 6.5k are throwing a tantrum, desperately clinging to the ankles of the masses, threatening to drag everything into the void if they can’t get their way.

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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        50 minutes ago

        as if the ones on top are living the ‘right’ way, or are ‘better’ somehow.

        Media literacy at an all time low. How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the people sitting on platforms literally weighing down on the lower classes are supposed to be better?

      • dbx12@programming.dev
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        9 hours ago

        It’s not “higher = better” but the level above suppresses / deceives the level below. And the higher up you go, the fewer people inhabit a level.

  • Resplendent606@piefed.social
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    12 hours ago

    100% tax for money after $500 Million. Also, tax corporations the full salary of the worker that is replaced by AI/automation/robotics to fund universal basic income.

    • PearOfJudes@lemmy.ml
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      10 hours ago

      Start a little earlier, personal income above 10 million gets a 90% tax without loopholes, and no tax until the cost of living (At least until the government sorts out universal basic needs.)

    • Digit@lemmy.wtf
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      5 hours ago

      the full salary of the worker that is replaced by AI/automation/robotics to fund universal basic income.

      ummm… just clumsily worded, or, not getting what universal basic income is? … sounds rather means tested and conditional there, how that’s worded.

      • Resplendent606@piefed.social
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        5 hours ago

        I apologize if it could have been worded better.

        Here is my train of thought:

        By removing a job from the labor market, they are essentially removing an entire salary from the economy. Normally, that employee would be expecting to find another job. With entire industries are removing a crazy number of jobs, the economy would not be expected to be able to provide another job to all of those workers.

        I believe there should be a penalty to the company for eliminating jobs from the economy to slow down or prevent it from happening. I would tax the corporation the full salary of the job that they eliminated. We would use that money to fund for UBI.

        I understand UBI should not be conditional and it does not have to be in my example. However, there needs to be a way to fund it. Perhaps if the amount of money collected from the “ai tax” is not enough to provide UBI at the level that is fair to everyone, it should also be funded by the wealth tax that I also mentioned.

        I hope that clears it up.

  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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    12 hours ago

    taylor isnt one of the good ones, she just had good pr, up until she started partying with magat influencer.

    • undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      Very true, she only had a career because her dad bought a record deal for her.

      Now, the best producers are writing sabrina carpenter’s songs (as she’ll be made into the next big thing) instead of Swift’s and the quality of writing, such as it was, has plummeted.

      Her old record label will now look to bring her down, to bring her fans over to their new projects and the wheel keeps turning until the next one. It’s not a coincidence that bad PR suddenly happens to an act after their record deal comes to an end.

  • Greg Clarke@lemmy.ca
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    15 hours ago

    The best way a billionaire could spend their money is to lobby politicians to tax the rich.

    • bryndos@fedia.io
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      6 hours ago

      I don’t like the long term effects of condoning corruption. That just makes politicians rent seek even more - and might incite jealousy in any politicians who missed out on that bribe. They’ll be back next election getting bribed by a bigger billionaire. I’d think better to try to reduce corruption.

  • vga@sopuli.xyz
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    5 hours ago

    Yeah we should totally kill the homeless. Or in fact just kill the poorest 10%

  • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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    17 hours ago

    I’m a bit torn on the topic of entertainer billionaires and millionaires. Is it our opinion that they should just retire as soon as they hit 2 or 3 million, and end all contracts with royalties? It’s not really their fault, at that point, that they keep making money.

    Likewise with people who bought stock shares before a big merger or bought crypto a decade ago which made their wealth more than decuple in value. They certainly didn’t start at the same low as the majority of people, but that’s also not really their fault.

    Let’s say that there can be some, that it’s possible to be, a good billionaire but let’s all agree we should be taxing the fuck out of them.

    • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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      43 minutes ago

      is it our opinion

      You have a brain, you should probably use it. How do you feel about billionaire entertainers?

      I’ll use a metaphor to describe my feeling. It’s not a dragon’s fault if gold simply continues to fall on its hoard, but it is that dragon’s fault if it continues to greedily hoard that gold instead of redistributing what it doesn’t need to people who need it.

    • TronBronson@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      Maybe just maybe we should not reward people who bought fake internet money to speculate with. Or pay entertainers the salary of 1,000 people lol

    • ghostlychonk@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      Taylor Swift released a crap load of different versions of her last couple albums, each one having different songs and artwork knowing that at least her most die-hard fans would buy every single one. It is 100% on her that she became a billionaire.

      • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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        5 hours ago

        she also has the power to break the harmful status quo of the industry if she so chose. her concerts are bigger than ticketmaster. she could refuse to do ticketsales through ticketmaster and give a lot more power to audiences and artists in the ticketbuying marketplace. she doesn’t because the status quo benefits her because she’s more entertainer than artist

        • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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          3 hours ago

          She may be bigger than Ticketmaster, but, much like Pearl Jam, I suspect she has found out that she isn’t bigger than the contracts that the venues have with Ticketmaster which say that they can only host artists and events that sell tickets through Ticketmaster.

          I don’t even like TS, I’m just saying other groups that were just as influential in their day, couldn’t do it when they tried because of those contracts.

    • brachiosaurus@mander.xyz
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      7 hours ago

      A billionaire is 999 times richer than a millionaire, you may end up a millionaire by chance but there’s no way you can magically become a billionaire. Assuming you bought 1000 bitcoins when they were worth a cent you would have sell them at 1 or 10, assuming you win a billion at the lottery you would give some of it away and cease to be a billionaire as a result.

      Keep also in mind that these people work hard to secure contracts and royalties, the more investments you have the more work you have to do to manage them.

    • Leon@pawb.social
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      7 hours ago

      I am sure the Aryan Goddess is completely unproblematic and earned all her money without hurting anyone. Truly, a self-made billionaire.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      Is it our opinion that they should just retire as soon as they hit 2 or 3 million, and end all contracts with royalties

      Nope. They are in fact able to spend money to help those that need it, so you can pack away your ridiculous strawman.

      It’s not really their fault, at that point, that they keep making money.

      It’s their fault if they hoard vast riches rather than meaningfully contribute to the betterment of the people, though.

      Let’s say that there can be some, that it’s possible to be, a good billionaire

      ABSOLUTELY not. You don’t accidentally become a billionaire in a day. You become a billionaire by hoarding ridiculous amounts of money long past the point where you have enough for everything you could ever need.

    • PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social
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      10 hours ago

      Also, it’s always Taylor Swift.

      I feel like this is seeing in action the thinking that led to the cultural revolution. “Sure, he’s just a chemistry teacher. But he’s one of the evil ones. He’s in the bad group. Into the labor camp!”

      Fixing the awful problems with our society requires changing a lot of things, among them taxes and the power of the wealthy to distort government and public opinion. Demonizing Taylor Swift relentlessly will do fuck all.

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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        40 minutes ago

        The problem is that Taylor Swift is the only billionaire that I see other leftists simping for. Anyone can say Musk bad and expect a lot of agreement and absolutely no meaningful discussion. If you think there’s no such thing as a good billionaire, but you make exceptions for ones that make music that you like, you need to reflect on why you feel the things you feel. Are you actually morally opposed to billionaires, or do you just personally not like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos?

      • motogo@feddit.dk
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        7 hours ago

        Of all the rich and influential people in US Taylor Swift is the least of your problems. She’s an absolute winner for opposing the power grabbing ppl. Take it out on Jeff Bozos or Elon or some other undemocratic capitalist.

        • TronBronson@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          I’d love to see entertainment democratized. That was kind of the promise of Netflix and YouTube that was sold to us 20 years ago. It was supposed to allow room for many artists to bloom and prosper and find audiences. Unfortunately, that was kind of a false promise and now we still have superstars who suck up the world’s entertainment resources. I want to watch more local bands. I want to watch more independent movies. Taylor swift is just an advertising agency at this point. She’s just a marketing agency with one client.

          • motogo@feddit.dk
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            1 hour ago

            Our household has a subscription on Nebula we’re quite happy with. Some good independent content.

        • InputZero@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          I’ll agree with you that Taylor Swift is not a billionaire of biggest concern. It’s not black and white, it’s a scale of grey. That said, anyone with over a billion UD dollars in personal and private wealth is in the you shouldn’t have that much money club. Full stop. That’s black and white. The grey comes in with how much over are you and what did you do to get it. Taylor Swift is not like Elon Musk, Sam Altman, or Peter Thiel, but she does have too much money and probably doesn’t do enough to encourage new talent who would be her competition. She’s a capitalist, just not the worst kind.

    • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      You don’t become a billionaire by hard work. You exploited a lot of people, you fucked over a lot of people. If they were a billionaire but literally everyone that worked for them was a multi-millionare I’d shut up. If I made $100,000 (of current USD) for 2,000 years… I wouldn’t have made a billion dollars.

      • brachiosaurus@mander.xyz
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        7 hours ago

        Tax alone isn’t the answer. if the richest man in the world were to pay 200 billions a year in taxes they would still be a billionaire and if these 200 billions ends up on building a ballroom for politicians not much is achieved.

        A billion is an amount of money so ridiculous that it should simply be illegal to have that much.

      • bryndos@fedia.io
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        5 hours ago

        I don’t think there is a tax authority with the power to do that, not in the west.

        Power is the answer, and I’m not sure any current governments have enough of it or the wherewithal to use it, certainly not globally. They seem to be able to find a weak government and lawyer/accountant their ‘wealth’ to appear there.

        Maybe somewhere like China can control it’s local billionaire problem more effectively than some others, but I don’t really know.

    • Horsecook@sh.itjust.works
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      15 hours ago

      Is it our opinion that they should just retire as soon as they hit 2 or 3 million, and end all contracts with royalties? It’s not really their fault, at that point, that they keep making money.

      They don’t become billionaires off of royalties. Taylor Swift is selling tickets to her shows for hundreds or thousands of dollars. She could be paying her staff more, and charging her customers less, but she chooses not to, because she is greedy.

      • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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        12 hours ago

        Ticketmaster actually takes the most from sales to her shows, but yes she specifically could be making better use of her money, such as not renting a super-yacht and not flying everywhere on a private plane.

        • ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          53 minutes ago

          She made bank off her tour, don’t speak as if Ticketmaster took all the money and she made nothing. Her “company” took in about 2 billion in revenue from the last tour and after expenses she made out with like 700 million in profit because she, like all shitty billionaires, extracts wealth from workers. I’m sure the roadies, people selling merch, tour musicians, etc are just doing great and definitely all have health insurance and aren’t being exploited because they work for Taylor and isn’t that so quirky and fun. She gave the musicians bonuses! That’s much better than a livable wage for everyone with benefits and definitely not a pr move slash a gift for the peons Taylor actually has facetime with and developed some empathy for.

          Also Ticketmaster takes a smaller cut from people like her. Don’t get me wrong, they still take a monster cut and that’s part of why your concert tickets are stupid expensive now as you say, but part of the unfair advantage she has is the resources to negotiate far better terms than say, band z getting off the ground. Both she and Ticketmaster knows she will 100% sell out every single ticket of the entire tour in seconds and she and her team leverage this for a more advantageous contract. The capitalist calls this shrewd, everyone else calls this an unfair advantage that makes the already rich and famous even more rich and famous.

          • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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            11 hours ago

            Lmao, you cited prices of tickets but the actual cause for those prices is somehow whataboutism?

      • DesertCreosote@piefed.blahaj.zone
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        12 hours ago

        I’ve seen this viewpoint a lot lately, and while I absolutely agree that tickets to her shows are expensive, when my wife bought tickets to the Eras Tour she was able to get them on the primary market for about $300 each for very good seats. The secondary scalping market was selling the same seats for between $2,000-$4,000 depending on the show, and people were buying them at that price. From a supply and demand perspective, Taylor Swift was absolutely selling those tickets below their true market value.

        As for paying her crew more, she also paid out $197 million in bonuses to her crew across the tour. That’s about 10% of tour revenue in bonuses. Not profits, revenue. I’ve been tangentially involved in the entertainment industry since college and have multiple friends directly involved, and I’ve never heard of any other performer giving that much in bonuses to their crew.

        Additionally, she donated to food pantries in every city she performed in. While the amounts she donated to each food pantry have not been released, people have worked out that it was likely at least $20k/pantry, based on the number of meals the pantries said they would be able to provide with it. That’s at least $1 million across all the cities, which is obviously not enough, but is far more than most other entertainers do.

        I know she gets a lot of flack because she’s so visible in our culture, but in terms of how bad billionaires are, she’s significantly better than a lot of others who fly under the radar. There are over 3,000 billionaires today, according to Forbes, and I’m pretty certain most of them made their money through much worse methods than singing songs and selling overpriced merch to fans. 😛

        • Horsecook@sh.itjust.works
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          12 hours ago

          in terms of how bad billionaires are, she’s significantly better than a lot of others

          “He was a very gentle rapist”

          • DesertCreosote@piefed.blahaj.zone
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            11 hours ago

            “He was a very gentle rapist”

            That’s not exactly a good-faith argument. You said she should pay her staff more and charge less for tickets. I provided a counterpoint to that.

            Going back to the original question that you were asked, should she have retired when she started to approach $1 billion in net worth?

            I will point out that the ownership rights to her music, which she purchased with the money she made from The Eras Tour and now owns completely, is probably worth close to $1 billion in valuation alone. Even if her entire liquid net worth was taxed from her, she’d be a billionaire on paper just by virtue of her music catalog & the value of her name.

            • Horsecook@sh.itjust.works
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              47 minutes ago

              Your own argument wasn’t made in good faith. I didn’t argue that she was the greediest person in the world, which is what you counter-argued.

              You’re singing her praises for the $200 million dollar bonus she paid out to her Eras Tour staff, out of her $1.2 billion dollar profit.

              Going back to the original question that you were asked, should she have retired when she started to approach $1 billion in net worth?

              She could pay her staff more, and charge her customers less…

              • DesertCreosote@piefed.blahaj.zone
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                5 minutes ago

                I didn’t assume you were saying she was the greediest person in the world. You said she should pay her staff more and charge her customers less, and I pointed out that she pays her staff more than anyone else would, and that the prices people pay for her seats and merch are often highly inflated by scalpers, not by her.
                And even if she paid all her cash money to her staff and gave her products away for free, she would still be a billionaire off of her catalog and name.

                You responded with a very dismissive comment about rapists, which was both insensitive towards victims of sexual assault and a complete failure to engage with the conversation. That’s why I said it was made in bad faith.

    • CoyoteFacts@piefed.ca
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      16 hours ago

      I don’t think it’s that unwarranted to calculate that there’s a certain amount of money that you could realistically spend in a lifetime, and anything after that might as well be passed on to taxes and other charities/community initiatives to help everyone else.

      It’s probably not something us common folk think about, but I’m certain that these people have thought about it at least once before, and their decision to keep the money for themselves is what makes them evil. There are no good billionaires because to reach that level you need to have made that decision long ago; the “good billionaires” are still millionaires.

      • AmbitiousProcess (they/them)@piefed.social
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        16 hours ago

        That’s exactly the point I think anyone reasonable would make.

        It’s not necessarily how they got the money, it’s that they keep it. If I won the lottery, and got a multi-billion dollar payout, I could wire most of that money to a DAF, tell it to distribute the money to 200 different charities I like, and it could be done within the week.

        Keeping that much money is a choice. Continuing to spend it all on lavish expenses while the poor suffer is a personal choice, not one they’re forced to bear the consequences of due to their fame.

    • theneverfox@pawb.social
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      16 hours ago

      You know who is a good billionaire? Steve Wozniak.

      Because he got his, more than he could ever need, and then he decided to stop. Since then he’s lived on his ranch and participated in tech outreach ever since

      You could self publish and live in luxury at $100 million. You could keep making music, hell you could do it in complete creative freedom

      Why would you want to become an avatar of wealth?

        • theneverfox@pawb.social
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          3 hours ago

          Woz would have been a billionaire if he didn’t sell his shares, which is my entire point. Good billionaires would’ve cashed out long before reaching that crazy level of hoard

      • Rhaedas@fedia.io
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        16 hours ago

        Power. At some point money stops being what it is to most people and becomes leverage to do things. The truly wealthy don’t have to worry about having the ability to buy things, they shift to being able to influence and control stuff. Now, that can certainly be used for good, so there’s the difference between the perceived good and bad billionaire.

        • theneverfox@pawb.social
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          15 hours ago

          Now that’s a totally different argument, but it’s bullshit

          Being a billionaire means you cease to be a person. Your personal finances are a corporation that does nothing but take

          Point to a good billionaire. I’ll point you to a PR firm and probably pictures at Epstein’s Island with half naked children

          There are no good billionaires. That’s both prescrive and descriptive, it’s just not a real thing for a whole host of reasons

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        16 hours ago

        Mostly agreed, but if Woz had gone billionaire, he’d have more to give. I wouldn’t pursue such a life myself though.

        • theneverfox@pawb.social
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          16 hours ago

          You literally can’t be a billionaire and give it away. You’d start giving long before that if you ever would part with more than slivers of your dragon hoard

      • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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        16 hours ago

        Well technically even if they buy a ranch and self publish all their own works with their own studios then their assets are still more welath than most people will ever earn.

        The only way to truly get rid of wealth is to give it to somebody else.

        • theneverfox@pawb.social
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          16 hours ago

          So? The world isn’t fair. I don’t begrudge people who have more than me, frankly I’m way more disturbed that anyone has less than me

          It’s fine to be rich. Especially if you actually earned it through your own efforts

          It’s not fine to hoard so much it destroys the fucking world, and that’s what it means to be a billionaire

            • theneverfox@pawb.social
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              15 hours ago

              Yeah, and those people are destroying the world

              If someone has ten million? Good for them. A hundred? Pushing it, but not so much that their mere existence means others must starve

              A billion? No, fuck off, your sheer hoard kills people systematically

    • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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      15 hours ago

      No one needs more than 5 million dollars. That’s enough for a comfortable life without laboring every again.

      If they make a shit load of money doing concerts, that money needs to keep moving. Tax it so it can go into schools and infrastructure and such. They don’t need a mega yacht. People are starving and suffering from problems money would solve.

      • lad@programming.dev
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        9 hours ago

        I would expect in our lifetime we will see median house price around that mark, it really depends on the country, somewhere it’s enough for a whole extended family but I don’t think that’s universally applicable

  • Gladaed@feddit.org
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    10 hours ago

    Itt:

    • reposses the wealth
    • homelessness is on the homeless

    Both are equally wrong. Homelessness has a great many causes and some people would struggle even with a home due to disorder that had them become homeless. It isn’t just a money issue.