I’m going to start with some background. Feel free to skip, but the background gives context.
Background: 45F US (California) expat living in Australia. I had always dreamed about living in Australia, but didn’t get a chance until my late 30s with a work assignment. In addition to being a lifelong dream, it felt like perfect timing because my parents had died a few years earlier; I was feeling burnt out in my job but not sure what to do next; and I was buying into the toxic view everyone was spouting online about the US being a sh*thole (I was quite terminally online at the time)). My expectation was that I’d be coming back after two years because the job was a limited assignment, and my partner and I had just bought a house. So I didn’t really have homesickness the first two years because I didn’t think I’d be staying. And during that time I didn’t really try set up a life here.
Then my plans were derailed. My partner, who is the only person I’d ever been with and for a very, very long time—split up with me and went back to the US. I felt I had nowhere to go back to, so I decided to stay in Australia longer. I had my ex buy me out of the house. Since then, I’ve tried fairly hard to make a life for myself in Aus. I got citizenship. I traveled the country. Made some great friends in the early years. Tried dating. Invested in local therapists, doctors, groups, clubs, bought a car, etc. But nothing I’ve done feels like it’s stuck. Between COVID and lockdowns, every single one of the local friends I made moved overseas, and they don’t keep in touch, unlike my US friends who still make time for calls and visits. I haven’t had luck making new friends since COVID. I have an ambitious work streak, which doesn’t really match the working culture here – my career, which was quite good in the US, has stagnated terribly, and fear of incurring harsh US taxes has kept me from starting my own business (I used to run a side business in the US). I have been, for years, unsuccessful at dating (I’m a childfree non-drinking non-sports-enthusiast, which kinda limits my options with the locals) and I also just can’t crack Australia style dating culture. Sometimes it feels like I’m similar enough to Australians that I should be able to fit in, but still different enough that I can’t get there. And there are some things that US folks idealize about living in Australia — like universal healthcare — that doesn’t really shine as well IRL. I’m not going to lie and say I’ve tried every possible thing, but I’m an introvert, so I’m not going to go ham on things I know I can’t keep up with. Recently, I’ve determined that I really, really want to buy a house and get a dog. I’ve given up trying to find a partner to settle down with. I can’t do that if I’m still not sure about staying in Australia. So I’ve been thinking, maybe instead of continuing to force myself to make it work here, maybe it’s time for me to head back to the US and make good on this idea I’d always had that I’d go back. Either that, or I need to find a form of therapy more drastic than that I’ve had the past 5 years to break me out of this mindset and force me to radically accept Australia as my final home.
OK, background over. It’s been 8 years since I lived in the US, so I know things are going to be different. I get it, but also Australia isn’t as ideal as it used to be either. I also won’t have the anchors or “safety net” I used to have when I lived in the US, of parents or a partner. Even the job market isn’t what it was when I left. In an ideal world, I’d move back to California, a state that I loved. I visit enough to know how the situation there has degraded, though, so safety and crime are a bit worrisome, as is whether I could even afford any property there since I’ve spent 8 years earning AUD instead of USD – in fact, I have some anxiety about needing to make this move soon because the longer I earn in AUD, the less and less likely I can afford the US later).
Anyways: Are there good subs to ask about finding states to move to? Or, if this sub knows, care to give any recommendations? I don’t want to start looking for jobs in the US without first picking a location. For me, the things I care about include: Relative safety; progressive state government; job opportunities (I’m in tech, with skills transferrable to other sectors like biotech); access to good doctors; and housing that would be affordable relative to the local market salaries. Florida is out (sorry!). Access to airports for travel purposes would be great. I don’t have kids, so I don’t have to worry about that side of things. It’d be nice if there was a good dating pool, but at my age and with me not having kids, I think it’s just going to be impossible anywhere. And if anyone has gone through this situation at an older age before, would love to hear it. Thanks!
With no kids, no partner, I think you have lots of options. It sounds like you should move back to the USA, definitely. Sorry Australia didn’t work out for you.
Maybe you should look for jobs first? Then move based on what you find? Otherwise, I would guess you could move to a nice town, but then find a job that requires you to move again… Which probably isn’t ideal.
I briefly moved back to the Raleigh Durham area after being away for 20 years. But tbh, it’s not a great place if you are older and single. Most of the people there are married with kids, living in their planned suburbs, talking about school zoning issues and frequent flyer points…
Good luck.
Thank you kindly. I really, one of these days, would like to take a break between jobs, but yes it does seem like I’ll need to secure one before moving back to the US. Thank you for sharing your experience!
I’m a dual US citizen with Australia, so I think I can relate to what you mean about the cultural differences and your reasons for moving. I was seriously considering taking advantage of my Australian citizenship and moving there, but I really detest the way they handled Covid and their property inflation (which is exacerbated by their wage and currency issues). My dad has been there for the last 6 months for family related issues and he can’t wait to come back to the states.
I think your worries about making AUD instead of USD is very relevant because the price of everything has been raising so fast in the US since Covid. So, maybe moving back quickly would be in your best interest, or even applying for work from home positions at a US company (or even applying to a US company that could help with paying for your moving back expenses).
Someone else already mentioned posing in samegrassbutgreener, which is a very informative subreddit I’d also recommend. I think you’ll have to consider a state/city’s growth/economy more than you would have 8 years ago, in addition to their housing market. A lot of the nice cities/neighborhoods have increased exponentially in price, and rents are super high in most popular places. The city I’m in has more than doubled in home price in the last 4 years due to covid and overall desirability. I used to live in San Diego before moving to the Midwest, so I can understand the appeal, but the state has really gone downhill in a sad way and I wouldn’t consider moving back for the foreseeable future. Good luck with your search and I hope you find an area where you can have a home with a yard and dog.
Thank you so much for your kind words!
Former Californian here. I think the ship has largely sailed on California and it won’t be back for awhile. Either the state needs to lower costs or it needs to get the madness and onerousness in check, but it can’t be the way it is AND this expensive at the same time. I’d write it off unless you’re counting on a killer income or you have really strong ties.
Most of my Family relocated to Colorado to great success. Places like Denver, Boulder, etc have a lot of the same cultural advantages California used to have - liberal western individualism combined with an investment in community resources and very little social conservatism at the governmental level. You also have the amazing outdoors access. There’s enough political blue to keep the values where you want them, and enough political red to keep the blue grounded in the real world.
Denver is great for Tech. Other options are Raleigh and Austin, though Austin might be booming a bit too hard. Pittsburgh is a tech hub and very affordable but I personally find it kinda dumpy, although the mountain proximity and local culture is fun.
I’m ten years older than you and living in Ireland. If I were to return, it would either be SF Bay Area (and I left there and i hate all of its problems but I’m in tech and have friends there) or perhaps New Mexico (since remote work is a thing). Working in Los Alamos or Santa Fe or finding a slice of ABQ that I like. I lived there once, back in the early 90s in ABQ. Yes, lots of gang crime. But I still found little areas to enjoy. Beautiful state. Affordable. But the crime is bad. Oregon would also be on the list. Portland or Eugene.
Thank you, I really connected with your post. Similar age and I did the same, but left the UK and moved to California. I often think about moving back to the U.K., as I haven’t quite found my people here. Maybe in time though.
I would say based on your list, spend some time looking at areas in Cali that maybe aren’t in the Bay Area. Most companies are remote or hybrid. I’m in SoCal and prices in LA, San Diego and even OC are bananas, but good deals pop up… it might be worth renting for a year to see if the housing market changes. Good luck, go with your gut instinct.
I’m sorry you haven’t found your people yet. It’s hard to know if the problem with finding friends is because it’s a natural part of aging and would have been difficult anywhere, or if it’s specific to not fitting in with the country itself. I will say, having spent a lot of time in California, the sprawl doesn’t help. So definitely not uncommon even for citizens (unfortunately!). Do you otherwise like California?
And to your suggestion: yes, I think I might look at San Diego and surrounds. I used to live in the Bay Area, and I think I’m OK with not returning to it. One can only take so many tech parks in their lives :)
Ha true! I think a few tech park type areas popped up around Irvine in OC, but most folks I know work remotely these days (me included, and my company was Bay Area). I guess that makes it hard to meet people though which might be why I struggled. Still, I prefer WFH. Catch 22! It sounds like you already know what you want to do, I hope you connect to that feeling and carry it forward. Whatever you decide will be right for you!
Yes… SoCal is fabulous. I love so much about California. Weather, food, the outdoors, mountains, beaches, earning power, investments, even my healthcare and dentist are great. Back home in the U.K. I know the NHS exists but the wait times are wild. Plus it was hard to save in the U.K. Life is generally sweet here, I just miss my friends and family in the U.K.
How many years in to Aus were you when you started thinking about moving back to the US?
I’d look at Baltimore. There are actually more tech jobs available than people assume and it’s affordable for big cities.
+1 don’t sleep on Baltimore. At this point, our nicer neighborhoods are a walkable, fun, affordable bedroom community for DC remote workers. Signed, a DC remote worker. Sample houses in great neighborhoods: 214 Grindall in Fed Hill, 1211 Light St #108 for $164k, converted church for $400 at 144 E Clement St E Unit A, and zillions more. Riverside, Federal Hill, South Baltimore, Mount Vernon, Canton, Medfield-Lauraville, and more all have great options. And everyone votes the right way.
You didn’t mention caring about weather- if you’re open to colder places that opens up so many more options.
I would definitely recommend holding off on the dog until you are settled. Pet ownership went berserk in the US during covid and it takes months to get seen as a new patient at a veterinarian. Dogs are great ways to meet people at dog parks though :)
Raleigh/Durham area. Temperate weather, RTP (research triangle park) full of tech businesses
Minneapolis/twin cities are supposed to be one of the cheapest and nicest cities in the US. It has public transit and there is a lot of greenery.
But I have never been there. I’m simply a 24yo Floridian trying to figure out where to live too
My aunt lives there. I would not care to live there. The weather is rough, doesn’t seem to popping for younger people (under 50). Although Ive never done the night life.
Its cheap.because of the weather…
When the winds come esp winter time, well, never mind…and winter is long there…
The whole Midwest has lots of greenery…and Minneapolis is also a travel hub, a big airport…
They do have thousands and thousands of lakes, and a big river…prerty much where the Mississippi River starts…
Hi. I’ve lived in Australia and New Zealand, and now live back in the Southeast US.
A few questions, if I may:
- Have you considered living in other parts of Australia? For example, if you live in Melbourne, have you considered Perth, Brisbane, Darwin, Hobart, Launceston…?
- Now that you have Australian citizenship, you have pretty easy access to live and work in New Zealand? Have you considered that?
- If you indeed move back to the states, would you be open to a liberal (not necessarily progressive) city in a conservative state?
Tying into question #1, Australia is a large enough country that there are some dramatically different environments. Not as much so (culturally, societally, climatically, topographically, etc.) as, say, the US, but still dramatically different. When I lived in Australia, I lived in the Brisbane/Gold Coast area, found the people pretty affable and friendly there (especially Brisbane), and had a job I mostly enjoyed. I liked visiting Sydney pretty well, too, and found the locals friendly enough. However, it did feel like they were trying a little too much, oddly, to act like NYC at times. I didn’t like visiting Melbourne at all, I thought the people there were generally assholes.
Tying into question #2, if you’re an introvert, then Tasmania in Australia or, better yet, New Zealand might be a good fit for you. If you have a strong work ethic, then I found Aucklanders to work almost as intensely as Americans - while they’re in the office. Kiwis, like Aussies and many other societies - still enjoy their 4+ weeks off work each year. So, New Zealand has a more introverted culture, yet they’re friendlier than both Aussies and Americans I’d argue. There’s a healthier sense of work-life balance IMO. The land would remind you quite a lot of Northern California through British Columbia. Big drawback: One of the worst COL/income ratios in the developed world nowadays.
I explored longer-term visa options for Australia and New Zealand. For Oz, I just shrugged my shoulders and told myself, “Nice try.” But for NZ, I was genuinely bummed that that didn’t work out.
Tying into question #3, you don’t need to watch Fox News, Newsmax, or OANN (which I sure as hell don’t watch any of those) to get that many large US cities are currently dealing with one or more of the following: violent crime, acutely mentally ill people, homelessness, tent cities, open-air drug markets, affordable housing, and inhumane regard for new migrants. I love California, too, but it’s not worth $3500+/month to live in Marina Del Rey, when you then can drive just a mile or two only to ask yourself, “What the hell happened here?!” Hate to say it, but the progressive state government there has really screwed the pooch.
Maybe a smaller, left-ish city with a well-educated population, decent job market, lower cost of living than the coasts, and some insulation from crime would work for you. e.g., Lexington (KY), Salt Lake City, Chattanooga, Tucson, Greenville/Spartanburg/Clemson (SC), Ann Arbor (MI), West Lafayette (IN). I live near Lexington, and, well, don’t let the fact that it’s in Kentucky turn you off quite yet; it is growing and has a lot to offer. Fun facts: it has historically been rather progressive with regard to LGBTQIA+ issues, co-operates a ferry that dates back to the 1780s, and offers one of the largest city-run nature preserves in the country.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
If the OP is struggling in Aus, why the fuck would he move to NZ?
It has exactly the same issues except his pay would now be halved.
Added to that, we’ve just voted in the furtherest right-wing/conservative government we’ve had since the eighties.
NZ is circling the drain, relying on immigration and housing to prop up the economy. It may not affect those in high paying positions yet, but it will indirectly felt in the next few years as social problems continue to increase.
I am sort of in a similar situation. Living somewhere new is an adventure but after many years we all get homesick eventually; mostly feeling a void of where our friends used to be. Childhood Friends are friends for life; and living among strangers or constantly making new friends is very hard. Is going back to your original hometown not an option? You’re on an adventure but it’s okay to want to go home. Most of my expat friends have returned home.
My take on your situation is that you will find the US entirely changed, and not for the better. Since you have an in demand skill, why not try a new place, rather than limiting youself to the US?
I thought about this early on, but the idea of going to a new, third place is not exciting to me. Immigrating the first time took a lot out of me – I don’t think I’m of the personality where I want to do that many times in my life. It’s also getting to the age where starting over is just tiring, not exciting.
Good enough. best of luck to you.
If you’re in tech and you have prior ties with California, I think that’s the place for you. Everywhere has drawbacks.
I don’t know what your budget is but I’d still say California - especially if you could maybe work remote, somewhere north of SF. I know the media likes to make the cities in California (and NYC) out to be hellscapes but they really aren’t that bad.
Moved to California cities after living in Tokyo for years. Don’t regret moving back, California has a lot of great places to live
I can’t address all of your concerns as my situation was and is a bit different.
First, don’t think of your age as being an impediment. I moved out of the US a year ago at the age of 46. It was a significant amount of work and stress but I did it. It’s a matter of mindset, not age.
My wife of 20 years had unexpectedly left me while I was on a business trip in 2018 and the years after that were just me existing. Add that to the political and societal landscape of the US declining significantly after the 2016 election with maga left it feeling very unappealing to me. I won’t even consider going back to the US until I see what happens in November 2024. If drump wins I won’t go back. I’m not part of the bandwagon that says the US is a “shit hole”, like any other country it has its pros and cons. For me, the cons far outweigh the pros.
I too am an introvert. But even more so than most. So to have taken the leap to move out of the US to a non-English speaking country was definitely a step out of my comfort zone. I don’t go out, can’t date, can’t make friends. I knew this going in, and other than the language barrier my situation, had I stayed in the US, would have been the same. My constant loneliness is just a way of living now.
I think the cost of living in the US is another huge obstacle. Housing, whether you’re renting or buying, is not easily obtainable. Even if you make a good salary, so much of it will go into basic necessities. I’m very lucky in that I work for a US employer that allows me to work abroad remotely. My money goes much further here than it would in the US.
My advice is to do what you feel is in your best interest. But do not make a quick decision. Factor in as much as you can.
While I have no doubt others will play down the potential affects of a 2024 drump win. That will indeed have dire consequences beyond theorized expectations.