Seems like it’s a well known fact that being poor or even middle class (if that will even exist anymore) in the US disposes one to a very low quality of life (e.g., living in areas with higher crime rates, bad healthcare, the most obvious being cost of living, …etc)
On the flip side, what are some reasons why the top 1-5% percentile would also want to leave the US? (e.g., taxes/financial benefits, no longer aligning with the culture? I would assume mainly the former)
If you are in the top 1-5%, is living in the US still the best place to live? (as many people would like to suggest)
US is the best nation in the world to make money. But once you have made money, there are other countries with lower income inequality and crime rates that are nicer to live in.
Like what? Name them!
Best to make it, worst to spend it
Having lived outside the US for long periods of time, I’d like to add: “It is so much more pleasant living someplace where everyone is at least content. Living in a place where everyone is barely scraping by, and miserable is depressing.”
Don’t move to France then!
Very accurate! France will sadly crumble eventually… The system just cannot sustain itself…
UAE/KSA/Qatar is better
^
Couldn’t have worded it better.
Moving to the US got me ahead very quickly. We still enjoy it but are planning our next stop…which will be Europe.
Canadian?
Even worse Bri’ish
Do you plan to get US citizenship before leaving?
Yeah I’m Canadian. On a Green Card now.
So basically lived in a place with lower income inequality but be rich?
This right here. Quality of life is so much higher in other places. If you don’t have to worry about finances, the fact that your children can’t go to school without being prepared to be shot at can really motivate you to move your ass.
School shootings are actually really rare.
Bigger issues are carjackings, muggings, etc. Kinds of violent crimes that happen daily in major US cities. You can live in a very safe suburb, but that limits activities that may be closer to poorer more dangerous areas.
Basically, this. We can afford to live in places that don’t give us such a high income by now, and we simply like them better. More time to enjoy ourselves, a culture that’s more aligned with our values, and a place we have simply come to love and feel at home every time we’ve visited. So we’re not primarily looking for economic opportunity now, we’re looking for quality of life… and the US is much, much better at economic opportunity than it is at quality of life.
Expat fire?
That’s what we do: make our $$ in the US (and pay taxes, of course), then spend it abroad.
This is exactly what I’m going thru. The US is great for money, but there are better places once you have it.
It is objectively extremely stale and boring in most of the US with suburbs, shopping malls, redundant box stores. In lots of the world is bustling markets and so much more life and culture.
Depends what you’re into. I’m into outdoorsy stuff and find the US to be a top spot for that lifestyle. On the other hand, I’m also a foodie and am really enjoying Bangkok.
If its true its the only reason why the US is the best, for the rest it has become mediocre in so many ways and breaks my heart to see the decline overall in the US.
This is an amazingly accurate and concise statement and in the old days would have gotten an award.
As an upper middle class American who wants to live abroad, I second this. I also feel like America doesn’t have as much pretty architecture and old cities and history like most of Europe does. (I’ve never been to any other continent so I can’t speak for other places).
Plus I want to learn French again so there’s that pull.
Basically I just want to be immersed in another culture and get outside of the bubble of normalcy. Yes it’s nice but it can get boring.
I can tell you that it is worth it for the reasons you stated.
Yay! Except I (26F) have an incredible job and don’t know if I want to leave it. Trying to manifest a move in 1-2 years.
You got this 😉
Yes to that manifest energy! I visited Germany first at 9 years old and told my self I would live in Europe at some point, took me a while but at 35 my US company had my same position open in Europe and it’s been an eye opening adventure.
All the best!
Your comment made me realize that awards are no longer available in Reddit. Havent seen them for a while but wasnt thinking about it either.
You just wrote down my exact thoughts while reading that comment 😅
wait what happened to awards?! why did they take them away???
they stopped giving daily free awards, and a lot of redditors (myself included) refused to buy any more awards from those greedy fucks.
Its terrible. I really miss the awards.
It isn’t really accurate. U.S.A is huge and top 5% have numerous options to live with no crime or income inequality with our borders. I guess if you focus only on big cities it would be more accurate but even then in most cities you can isolate.
Where is there no income inequality?
Well. You can be easily robbed, mugged or beaten up in some sections of the safest countries. Or, conversely, you can live crime-free in just about any place in the world as long as you keep you wits and make good decisions. It’s not a black/white proposition.
Have you been to Europe?
The only country I visitted in Europe was France and I felt pretty unsafe there… maybe I did a bad choicing.
Any East Asian country beat it easily, by far ahead.
Yeah one of my fav questions on AskEurope was “can a 10 year old girl walk alone to school in your city?”
There are hundreds of cities around the world where people would say “of course. How else do they get to school?”
I cannot think of one single city in the US that is both walkable and safe enough for this.
Maybe Palo Alto, as long as it’s in the same neighborhood so they don’t have to cross a 45mph (70kph) road.
This is possible in every state. The real question is what parent would allow that anywhere in the world?
From the answers just from Europeans, parents in the following capitals (not even including smaller cities and towns):
And from personal experience this is also perfectly normal for children to explore the city alone in Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo, and Taipei.
And again, I’m just listing the capitals where it’s safe. A comprehensive list would be way too long.
France is a shithole, never go
I’ve been to France many times & have felt both safe and unsafe there. The tourist areas will often have sketchy sections. Particularly some parts of Paris late at night are exactly where you don’t want to be (Was chased by a group seemingly looking to rob me). Outside of the tourist areas, everyone is much nicer to tourists and overall these places feel much more safe. Probably because there’s no massive influx of clueless tourists to rob. The criminals are put out of business in these places.
Can you elaborate on the making money part? What makes it the best nation in the world from that standpoint? Genuinely curious.
It’s called ‘American dream’ for a reason. It’s a country that people who truly work hard and never stop grinding will be rewarded. But that also mean laid back people will not be happy.
This is specially true if you are in one of the big cities in the US (NY, Bay Area). For my job, I’d probably make 20-25% in Europe vs what I make in the US
What job? Teaching? Nothing pops out at me as being more lucrative in Europe than the US (with the exception of jobs in Switzerland)
I’m just curious!
We moved from Australia. If we moved back ,we would each take about 50-70% pay cut, in very different unrelated industries. A similar home to our one in the US would cost about 3x the price.
We are essentially about 4-5x richer in America working the same jobs. When we get to the point of not needing to work anymore, we would probably move back to Australia.
But then, and this is a genuine question, doesn’t the extra pay gets spent in healthcare and other costs that I keep reading to be also quite expensive in the US, like owning a car or general cost of living?
Please keep in mind that healthcare expenses are not proportional to income per n the USA. People in better jobs tend to have better health insurance plans and they also tend to live healthier life styles. With good insurance, these top out at several thousand per year per family.
Taxes tend to be lower in the US, real estate tends to be cheaper in the US, cars tend to be cheaper in the US. I am not sure why you think that general cost of living is very high in the USA.
Depending on what your income is, your healthcare (as in your co pays and insurance contribution) is not so expensive that it’s going to eat up that difference in pay check.
And in those very good jobs, you frequently get better insurance with better coverage and lower co-pays.
Owning a car in the US I have found to be WAY cheaper than the EU. I am not the person you asked this of, and it’s been 16 years since I was in Australia, but gas prices in some parts of the EU/AU would make an American weep. I have family in the UK and EU and they pay almost more per liter than what you pay for a gallon here, and a gallon is 3.78 liters. MSRP on a lot of vehicles is cheaper in the US. I don’t know what car insurance rates are like, but unless you’re getting hosed in the US because you are a crappy driver, there’s no way that the difference in rates makes a huge difference on the bottom line at a certain income level.
https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/
Based on the current rates, my fam in NL are paying double the US cost in gasoline. And despite what people say about bikes and public transportation, the vast majority of people I know back there still commute by car.
A Toyota Corolla costs $22k in the US and £30k+ in the UK.
Cost of Living seems to be having problems everywhere. In the US there are places that span the range from cheap to normal to expensive to astronomical. Plenty of people in the EU saw costs rise a huge amount during the pandemic, and housing crises are making living spaces pricey too.
I recommend reading news sources of the places you want to be, subreddits too, and while some are biased towards what people complain about versus praise, it does give some info on what are problematic issues.
And don’t forget that car prices are generally the same or higher than the US around the world. Imaging buying a $22k car when you’re making $500 a month? Cars are essentially a luxury where I’m from
What industries? Because we’re in tech/law-finance and we have found it’s a lot closer to 30%.
This is especially true if you work in tech. Software engineering is 3-4 times more lucrative in the US than in the EU. Combine this with income lower taxes and the difference is staggering.
A plumber doing 50k
The 1% in France makes like 80k, the 1% in the US makes 400k. Less regulations more profits more competition for skilled workers.
it’s not like that at all. The 1% in both countires are about the same. The average person seems similar wealth wise in france, but the bellow average person is far better off in france.
Many broke ass run down american areas.
Chat gpt said top one percent in France earn about 100k eur in 2021. That’s way less
Literally that’s the stats - France top 1% income at 7.1k euro per month vs the US at 400k per year. And the top 10% in France is 44k (40k euros link) while in the US it’s some 170k (link)
When comparing upper middle class (1-10% income - doctors, lawyers, engineers, mid career business people), Americans earn much more than Europeans which is why it attracts talent from many of those countries. Median income is around the same you’re right. And being lower income is harder in the US with limited social programs.
I live in France and I personally know 4k+ net is considered top 10% (gross per year is about ~100k EUR). I think that 7k value in your source is net meaning the gross value per year is not 80k, but rather 140-150k.
Still a huge difference from the USA, I won’t argue that. But no, someone earning 80k a year gross in France (which is what you’re saying comparing to 400k USD) is not in the top 1%. I guarantee it.
it’s not like that at all. The 1% in both countires are about the same. The average person seems similar wealth wise in france, but the bellow average person is far better off in france.
Many broke ass run down american areas.
I can only talk from an EU perspective but in my field a junior dev in the US typically starts at the same rate as a senior dev or high end medior dev in NL.
House prices are much lower in the states making buying affordable for middle class families and in some cases even lower class families. This is nearly unheard of in most of europe because of extremely high taxes and significantly lower wages.
Building capital in the US is much easier than it is in Europe because of higher wages, lower taxes and generally cheaper products/services.
Where in the US the economic model is built based on upward mobility and rewarding those who work hard and smart, granted with risks. The EU is mainly running on what is called generational wealth. People who already have lots of money/property keep it regardless of performance while those who do not often don’t. Again there are exceptions to this rule but as a generalization this is true.
The social safety net is better in europe but it comes at a cost. High performers and talented people often get sidelined/punished in the process. The US allows such people to bloom more often at the cost of a stronger social safety net.
It also helps that most major inventions and industries are in the US meaning that getting into the forefront of things is much easier.
I can’t speak to the “best in the world” because I don’t know about the whole world, but the place I work for is located in 145 countries and the US by far makes the most. I am at the bottom of the pay scale (low cost of living city & haven’t worked here long) & I make over double what someone 2 levels above me (5+ years more experience) would make in London.
Similarly, I know someone who lived in Japan and made $30K USD who moved to the US and went to $150K USD doing the same job.
Plus that exchange rate…