Well… That goes against the theory of economics, Sony will learn the hard way, like they did with memory stick.
I’m starting to think consoles are cooked. The massive jumps in technology between console generations have turned into small incremental steps. The game quality has dropped (independent games and a few others are exceptions). PC’s used to be slow to boot and load a game vs consoles and also required updates to download, but now PCs are quick and updates are mostly automatic. Consoles used to be nice to just turn on and play without thinking about all that other stuff, yet now they require downloads and updates as well. Loading times aren’t much better either. Consoles used to also be very cheap compared to PCs, but now with the “next gen” being around $1000 the price difference isn’t that huge anymore - especially when you factor in modular updates that can be done to a PC to cheaply extend it’s life. One of the last hold outs for consoles were physical games and now they’re taking that away too.
im never buying a sony title again.
I haven’t bought a physical game in years. But I also haven’t owned a PS since 2 so fuck Playstation.
I’m curious what PlayStation fans would think about changing from a disc plus download, like it is now, to a cartridge like Switch uses?
I think it would be a thousand times easier to get Sony on board with that idea.
What difference would it make?
I’m struggling to understand what this would achieve as well. They’re objectively more expensive to manufacture.
The PS5 probably won’t see any noticeable decrease in game sales, because pretty much everyone who wants one already has one, but I’ll be interested to see if gamers call Sony’s bluff for the PS6 or not.
I don’t have much faith in them turning down the PS6 if the calls to boycott Hogwarts Legacy is anything to go by.
It doesn’t even have to be a morals-based boycott like Harry Potter.
Practically, just as an amoral consooomer, there’s no reason to purchase a non-upgradable, barely-customizable gaming device which is confined to Playstation’s walled garden when you could buy an upgradable, highly customizable gaming device that you can do whatever you want with.
My primary console since my teenage years has always been a Playstation. That will change probably before the PS6 even comes out. I have a PS5, I probably won’t sell it just in case of any interesting exclusives. (Lmao, I know, magical thinking, considering there are still only 6 such games, none of which appeal to me enough to buy them). I’m planning to get a PC and buy everything I can on there instead.
Some reminders of Playstation’s bullshit other than just physical media:
- Removed the ability for you to back up your PS5 game saves to USB, forcing you to buy PS+ or risk losing your save data permanently if something goes wrong.
- Discontinued free multiplayer services, ostensibly to improve the security of their network after North Korea hacked their shit for releasing a movie about assassinating Kim Jong Un (or Kim Jong Il, I don’t remember). Morally, idgaf about mocking North Korea, but economically, I do give a fuck about paying a corporation $80 per year to cover their operating expenses for doing so.
- Discontinued most forms of customization. PS3 and PSP could install full-on user-made themes, or you could make your own, even customizing things like the sound the interface makes when you scroll through it. Now you literally cannot even set a proper background.
- Refused to manufacture their controllers with hall effect joysticks (which prevent controllers from developing stick drift). Both ridiculously-expensive PS5 controllers I bought developed stick drift, and I’m not particularly rough with them or anything, not at all prone to gamer rage lol. I bought a third-party controller (SZ-5005B) with hall effect joysticks and haven’t had any issues since.
I’m sure there’s tons more too. Also the PS5 interface just generally sucks shit, like sometimes my Media Gallery is on my homepage and sometimes it’s not despite me not changing any settings, or just other stupid design choices.
We’ll see. Boycotting a $1000+ digital only console will be easier than boycotting a $70 game. Will millions buy it? Of course. But shareholders don’t just want SOME of the money, they want ALL of the money. It needs to sell many tens of millions.
I think a lot less people care about consoles now. People are moving over to mobile, not necessarily solely Android or iOS, but stuff like Switch or Steamdeck.
I’m reluctant to buy any digital games on anything but Steam at this point, and that’s because Valve has begrudingly earned my trust over 20 years of use. I do wonder what plans are in place for the point at which Gabe isn’t around to steer Valve.
I have zero confidence in any other game related corporation to have a long term view in mind, and especially not one in which the platform is designed to be consumer friendly.
I would trust GOG too. At least as long as they let you download offline installers.
Putting your trust on any company is already a mistake. The only correct answer is GoG, or other similar DRM free distributions. You don’t have to trust them, because it doesn’t matter what they might pivot to: you still have your downloaded games, and they still work without any connectivity.
Also, when you end up passing away, guess what happens to your steam library? You cannot pass it on to anyone else.
Idk bought 3 games on Steam just the other day and all three came with pop up when I went to install them to let me know that I was only License to use them.
While I bought 3 games on GOG same day and they only asked if I wanted to donate to their fund to keep games DRM free and letting me know that I own all my games I purchased.
Valve might be going to shit.
Is there anyway to backup our games purchased on Steam?
Is there anyway to backup our games purchased on Steam?
Yes, you can copy the install folders and saves for them. Some can be modified to run without Steam fairly easily, some will need more involved cracks. Generally it’s easier to just redownload the whole game cracked and move your save files over.
Do you or anyone have steps for those cracks. I definitely want to play and keep my games without needing Valve.
You want the Goldberg Emulator, which is basically a replacement for the steam_api DLL that lets you play those games offline.
Mind you, not all games using Steam DRM will work with it, but many if not most will by just replacing the game’s steam_api DLL with the one from the emulator.
Alternatively, just prefer GOG over Steam for games available on both stores and make sure you download the offline installers from GOG and back them up - GOG itself is not entirely immune to the kind of legal shenanigans that would force them to delist a game from their store and remove them from a buyer’s games collection but, unlike Steam, their setup makes it impossible for such legal orders to stop you from playing that game if you already have the offline installer.
They know you won’t leave, you’re all junkies at this point.
Got fed u with the fucking stick drift and Sony’s bullshit. Plugged my Rog ally that was taking dust to the TV, put bazzite on it. Now I can play what I want with a 20$ controller.
Playstation can go to hell.
Meh, most games are available on PC, and the exclusives that aren’t will come to emulators eventually. It’s worth paying extra for a PC that can run anything you like, including games, especially when you can install Linux and cut a ton of bullshit out of your life.
Every company that goes public stock shifts their priorities from customers to investors (extracting money).
Guess Im done with Playstation moving forward.
Digital isnt the worst thing, but how “ownership” is controlled can be. I wouldn’t blame Sony for the move but their method is garbage, and their past practices with digital ownership is too.
GoG on the other hand knows how it should be done. I have tons of games from them on a thumb drive. I’ve never actually needed to use it, but its nice to know I can. Major kudos to them.
That said, most of my games are owned on steam, which still has DRM, but at least I can play those games on a 20 year old PC, a modern one, a box in my living room, or on a multitude of hand helds. With Sony you are tied to a specific console and thats that. Good fucking luck when they stop selling that console.
DRM on Steam is up to the publisher.
Steam is DRM
Only if publisher wishes.
You can totally play games downloaded via Steam without launching the shop, if the game is DRM-free.
No. It’s impossible to sell a game DRM-free on Steam. They always require a connection to Valve’s servers to install, regardless of what the publisher wants. GOG lets you download the installer as a file that you can use wherever or whenever you want.
I mean yes… kind of. You can go to your library in gog and download (slowly speed-limited and broken into 4 gb chunks for some damn reason) which means no client needed.
But steam does have games that are DRM free after that first install. Ones that you can copy directly out of the folder and put them anywhere and run. Steam no longer needed.
There is a list here https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam although it suggests its about 600 games more that arent on the list yet.
The 4gb chunks is so you can put them on
Blu-rayDVD discs for storage. Back in the day large games came on multiple discs.Edit: Also it’s probably more what the other guy said about format, fitting on a DVD is just a bonus.
I always thought it was legacy support for FAT file systems. If one was so inclined, you could break a large file down into chunks yourself using a compression tool.
That reason honestly makes a lot more sense than blu ray compatibility
You probably mean DVDs since they are 4.7gb. Bluray capacity is closer to 50gb per disk I think?
Yep I did, but the other guy is probably closer to the truth of it. Fitting on a DVD is just bonus.
We really need a c/confidentlyincorrect comm for people like you
Ehh, pretty sure they know what they’re talking about, they just have what I consider a really bad take about it, and present it as absolute fact. Because yes, you need a connection to steam to “install” a game from steam, whereas you can predownload a GOG game and then not need a connection to install. Which doesn’t really matter to most people, since they don’t care about having the game use an official installer, as opposed to either an unofficial one or just archived game files, but it is a difference.
Then they’re being deliberately obtuse to make a point. Valve treats downloading and installing as the same thing so needing a connection to “install” a steam game is functionally no different than needing a connection to “download” the installer from GOG and then installing the game. Once Steam has installed the game and it has no actual DRM you can just copy it wherever you like. GOG gives a much better package for storing your games but that doesn’t mean what Steam does is DRM.
I guess it’s the right place to ask even if it’s not really related to Sony and my move away from them.
I download and install my GOG games through Heroic and then move them to a hard drive after I’m finished enjoying them.
If GOG one day disappears, will I still be able to play the games that way or do I really have to separately download the offline installers which are separated in many files?
Two things:
- GOG games DO NOT HAVE DRM to play. That’s their store’s unique value proposition. So if you still have that machine with that OS all working you can keep on playing those games forever even if GOG no longer exists. In practice in my experience of over 3 decades as a gamer, you’ll start having problems soon enough even if you refrain from updating that machine’s OS, as the OS version stops being supported as do the apps in it (for example, somebody from my family had Windows 8 until recently and eventually Google mail stopped supporting his browser version and there was no newer version of the browser that still supported Windows 8 - btw that person now has Linux) plus eventually even the machine hardware fails. Point being that an installed game is generally locked to the machine it has been installed in and the OS in it, since during installation it has probably configured a bunch of stuff in places like the registry (it’s not as bad in modern Linux were you can probably get away with just moving the entire home directory and hope for the best, but in Windows it’s still pretty bad). So you’re better off backing up the offline installers.
- I don’t used Heroic but I do use Lutris and the latter has an option to save the game installer when it downloads it from GOG during a direct “install from GOG”, so emaybe Heroic has it too. Given that the files Lutris lists as downloading when I “install from GOG” seem to be chunked just like the offline installer ones from my account page in GOG, I bet those files are the offline installer ones.
Realistically, you’ll always be able to download the offline installers from the high seas anyway.
will I still be able to play the games that way
Most of them will probably work, but there’s no real guarantee. Depends on whether the installers dumped critical files into your system / user folders.
I believe Steam games, even in offline mode, can only be run on systems where you have installed Steam and logged into it. If you copy the game files to a disc and give it to a friend, they would not be able to play it.
You’re wrong. It depends on whether drm is enabled. If it is not, then the game files on the disc would work. It is the publisher’s choice whether to enable drm.
As the other comment says, if they can explain how I can install a game from GOG without connecting to their servers, I’m happy to concede the point 😂
Fiduciary responsibility or not, Sony is a big company with their fingers dipped in a lot of stuff, and decisions have a lot of inertia. The moment we learned they retooled some factories it was clear this has been in the making for a while and they will not back off. Sony (or at least the playstation division) is compromised and we need to focus on alternative solutions.
I’ve been years buying digital for PC but never did once on PS4, PS3 or XBOX 360, I mean what the point? The only reason to have a console was so that you can sell your discs once played or lending to friends.
We used to be able to do that with PC games, too. But then Valve and Apple killed physical PC games.
Apple killed physical PC games
Valve, sure. But this is a leap of such inscrutable logic that I have to hear more about it.
Didn’t they stop manufacturing computers with CD/DVD drives a while ago? Perhaps that’s what they’re referring to.
Yes, Apple were the first to make PCs without floppy drives, and also the first to make them without optical drives. Mac users kept buying Macs; other PC manufacturers saw that people were willing to buy PCs without optical drives, so they copied Apple, and now you can’t buy any PC software (including games) physically. This all happened in parallel with the rise of Steam, as Valve somehow got PC gamers to insist on DRM.
To be clear, there was no collusion or conspiracy going on, just people reading the market and finding ways to consolidate power and income.
as Valve somehow got PC gamers to insist on DRM.
Reading this and your other comment, this bit seems a bit disingenuous to me. Nobody is insisting on Steam in order to have DRM. Valve found a way to make Steam’s DRM palatable to gamers, and from there even managed to make people have a preference for it as a distribution channel. You pointed out yourself, gamers were not happy about this with the initial roll out with Half-Life 2. Whether it was their own games, helping jumpstart the age of indie devs, or the other parts of Steam like the communities and chat, they did actually add stuff to the program that gamers found value in. Nobody should operate under the illusions that a corporation is their friend and will actually look out for their interests, but it doesn’t help anyone to exaggerate making claims like “PC Gamers insist on DRM.” Heck, one of the most common complaints I see about Steam is people complaining about it having DRM like Denuvo in some games, or requiring you to launch some publisher’s launcher and sign in to one of their accounts to play a game when you’re already signed in to the account in Steam you bought the game with.
How did apple do it?
Besides steam offers a digital storefront, and I have seen their own games on physical. Its dofferemt when it is an open competitive market.
Yeah, I have a copy of Half-Life: Blue Shift on CD somewhere, from before Steam was a thing.
Two things happened in parallel. This wasn’t a conspiracy and there was no collusion, it was just businessmen making canny decisions which worked out. Fair warning, this post is longer than I expected.
In 1998, Apple released the iMac, the first PC without a floppy drive. In 2008, they released the MacBook Air, the first PC without an optical disc drive, for the sake of making it really really thin. A few subsequent Macs did have optical drives, but the last one was the MacBook Pro, released in 2012. On both occasions, people predicted that Apple was DOOMED, because who would want to buy a PC without basic hardware?
But people did. Some people depend on Mac-exclusive software, and come Apple fans are just cultists. In any case, removing components didn’t adversely affect sales, and so other companies concluded they could make cheaper PCs by dropping floppy drives and optical drives, which they did. As such, you can’t get a computer with a floppy drive at all any more; you can get one with an optical drive, but you have to know where to look and specifically ask for one.
Meanwhile, Valve were doing pretty well with Half-Life and its expansions. Releasing updates and patches was very much a fuck at the time, because Windows didn’t have a package manager (and I’m not sure it has one even today). Valve’s programmers started work on Steam initially as a way to distribute updates easily and automatically, but its potential as a DRM system quickly became apparent.
In 2004, Valve released their long-awaited and highly-anticipated new game, Half-Life 2 both physically and digitally… and all versions required Steam. No, you couldn’t just put the DVD you owned into your PC, install the game, and play it. You needed to also install Valve’s own DRM system, which would regularly call home, in order to play a copy of a game you physically own.
(Pedants and lawyers will say you only license, not own, the game on the DVD. This is true. However, you do own the DVD that the game is on. You don’t own the game itself, but you do own that specific copy of it).
People hated this. PC gamers already found it intolerable that they had to have the CD in the drive to play games they owned as if it was a PlayStation, but having to register over the Internet? That was a bridge too far!.. but this was Half-Life 2, and gamers™ will talk a big game about boycotting up until it’s time to actually boycott. Everybody wanted to play Half-Life 2, because it’s the sequel to one of the best, most influential games ever made, and it honestly really did live up to the hype. So they sucked it up, installed Steam, and had a blast with Half-Life 2. Steam also had a storefront grafted on top, allowing people to buy Valve’s back catalogue through it, and would also serve as
The next year, Valve figured that hey, if they can sell their own games, why not those of other devs? So they started selling a selection of smaller games, and this is what really led to indie games becoming viable. Without the expense of packaging and distribution, smaller groups and solo devs were able to release smaller, cheaper, and more niche games and passion projects that didn’t need to sell like gangbusters to make a profit without having to set up and maintain their own online shops. Steam became the standard vector for selling indie games, and over time, bigger and bigger games started being sold on Steam until it morphed from a major shop into infrastructure. It’s no longer just a shop/DRM system, it’s now The Thing That People Use For PC Games.
Just three years after Steam started selling third-party games, Apple started phasing out optical drives. Two years after the MacBook Air, Valve released Steam on Mac. As Steam grew and expanded, PCs with optical drives faded away, leaving PC gamers with no choice but to buy digitally, and that meant using Steam, which [https://www.xda-developers.com/valve-steam-monopoly-real-gamers-chose/](does have a monopoly in the PC gaming space).
And that is how the independent parallel actions of Apple and Valve killed physical PC gaming.
Phasing out the optical drive from laptops was just about inevitable regardless of what Apple did. It saved a lot on battery life, not just form factor. I might see digital distribution of music, not video games, as a bigger driver for removing the disc drive, too.
Of course Apple weren’t thinking about video games. But they still dropped optical drives, which led to everyone else dropping optical drives, hence no more physical PC games.
SD cards could have been a successor but it’s no match for the ease of a good service over broadband internet
