• Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 months ago

      Don’t you know? Only the finest hand crafted memes printed on virgin linen parchment, drawn with natural carbon neutral inks and colored with vegan dyes can win over the working classes.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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            3 months ago

            haha here’s the prompt: A candid photograph of an elderly artisan with a focused expression, wearing a tweed apron in a cluttered studio, meticulously using a fine-tipped brush to paint a crudely drawn meme on a large piece of textured linen parchment. The meme shows a muscular figure with the face of Lenin wearing a backwards cap, labeled “CHAD LENIN” in blocky letters, next to a thought bubble that says “SEIZE THE GAINS.” He is surrounded by small glass jars of natural pigments and a palette, with a sign on the table that reads “VEGAN DYES & CARBON NEUTRAL INKS ONLY.”

        • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 months ago

          Anyone can pick up a paper and pencil. Art books are widely available in libraries, or for piracy online. Some communities have communal art events or clubs. Digital art and graphic design programs are all cracked online or open source. Hundreds of thousands of Youtube and Bilibili videos and tutorials. Your own imagination is also perfectly free to use. Famously no poor people have ever drawn or created any form of art, ever, in the history of humanity.

          How is this a class issue? Are you saying poor people aren’t able to pick up a pencil and doodle for 15 minutes if they wanted to, or open photoshop or blender? Hiding behind the poor as an excuse is an insane defense for a corporate slop machine.

          Instead of a poor trying to come up with a way to express themselves, they should instead type their thoughts into the capitalist machine and alienate themselves further from their humanity and self. No need to improve, no need to think, no need to interact with the world around you.

          • Munrock ☭@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            One of my colleagues teaches Art and English as a foreign language. She’s not even poor because we’re in a country that doesn’t shit on teachers, but even she uses generative AI to illustrate her slides and create grammar posters. She’s time-poor, and she’s not giving the school any labour for free making posters in her free time when she’s got a family life to live. Nobody cares if the capybara character on the poster has 5 or 4 toes. It’s not a maths poster. The students think it’s funny and we move on. No artists are losing work, because even without the AI option there’s no budget for decorating lesson slides or making posters to take home. Unless anyone wants to work for exposure. Can pay plenty in exposure.

            And on the flip side, neither of us is using AI to replace artists in situations where we use artists. She still does her own personal art, and I just wrapped a Christmas gift for a valued friend that I paid another artist friend to create. Took her seven months because she’s also pressed for time, and the chats we’ve had over the creative process are one of my fondest memories for this year.

            Is this a regional thing? Is it different in your country, wherever you are? I’ve got musician friends using AI to help make music videos and artist friends using AI to make music for their comic strip posts, and nobody’s losing any sleep over it. There’s some other variable and it’s not the AIs.

          • haui@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            Please try and employ the dialectic. As always, lets work together on finding an avenue for progress.

            While poor people might be gifted in creativity, they dont need to able to draw. using ai slop machine may even be able to help a person without arms to express themselves in pictures which only those learning to draw with their mouths or feet were able to before.

            ML still firmly anti ai imo need to get their progress machine checked and reread left wing communism as the denial of a tool for the working class out of ideological reasons is ultraleftist insanity.

            Its of course also reactionary, which makes it no better.

            This does still not mean that we tell everyone to use chatgpt for therapy but there is room for nuance between the two.

            • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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              3 months ago

              The exception does not make the rule. How may people with no arms do you think there are relative to the population of the globe? They also don’t need to draw if they don’t want to. They can write, using voice to text, they can use a specialized mouse to create 3D animations, they can sing, they can express themselves beyond a slop machine. Hiding behind the poor and amputees is disgusting.

              I believe AI is perfectly dialectical in regard to medical research for example, but not in automating self-expression. All that will do is lead to the “sameification” of human culture.

              • haui@lemmygrad.ml
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                3 months ago

                You’re being highly reactionary and are personally attacking a comrade. Do better.

                • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  I am not personally attacking anyone nor being reactionary. What was the personal attack? Claiming that opportunistically using amputees as shields is disingenuous as a defense?

      • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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        3 months ago

        Honestly you could probably make do with half a broken pencil and the back of a receipt. A bunch of digital art programs are also free or easy to pirate.

        • Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 months ago

          maybe you could make do but I feel like many people would come up with something like this and it isn’t very inspiring.

          • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            That goes hard honestly, I love that

            Everyone starts somewhere too, and I don’t think anyone would expect a beginner’s skill would stay at that level for very long.

            I don’t think that I could create a Rembrandt level comic but I’ve been slowly learning to draw and going from what you created to even just something a little better is a lot of fun.

            I’m not taking the piss though, minimalist images like that are genuinely funny. Plus knowing that someone took five minutes to open up MS paint and make that makes the image more endearing in a way? Like the person obviously cares and they’re trying their best to show it with the skills they have. Even making something silly like that requires creativity.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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              3 months ago

              You’re kind of doing the same thing here that anarchists do where you make the implicit assumption that everyone else thinks the way you do. Some people enjoy drawing, and investing time in developing this skill. Some people enjoy the aesthetic of poorly drawn memes, absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, it’s not for everyone, and other people like different things. The niche you’re advocating for exists, and nobody will take that away from you. Nobody will stop you from drawing as many silly memes as you want to draw. But imagine how obnoxious it would be if every time you posted one of these silly memes, then somebody would inevitably sealoion to moan how it’s not the type of aesthetic that appeals to them and therefore nobody is allowed to enjoy it.

              • haui@lemmygrad.ml
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                3 months ago

                Psychpost: this “thinking everyone thinks what you do” often stems from a lack of a theory of mind which is part of the neurodivergent package. Many autistics suffer from this, such as i. This means, in my mind, everyone is able to do what i do, will like what i like, will think what i think, at least instinctively. Consciously, of course, i know that this isnt the case but i have to stop a second and remind myself every time. I think we need to remember that this can be the case and might even be the reason for many fights. For myself it was theory that helped me overcome the resulting reactionary stupidity and ultraleftism (i actually used to be an anarchist because of exactly that crap). One of the most important pieces of theory to thoroughly stamp that out was left wing communism by lenin.

                • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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                  3 months ago

                  Absolutely, and I’d argue this is a fairly common phenomenon with people in general. It’s easy to get lazy and start using yourself as the template for how people think. This is precisely why we need to actively work on developing empathy to step outside our own shoes and try to see things from a different perspective. When somebody has a genuine disagreement with you, as opposed to just trolling to get a rise out of you, it’s always important to understand where they’re coming from first before trying to convince them of anything.

            • m532@lemmygrad.ml
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              3 months ago

              I don’t think anyone would expect a beginner’s skill would stay at that level for very long.

              I tried drawing for a very long time. I tried it on paper, for years. I tried it on computer, with gimp, with krita, with a graphics tablet (good for playing emulated professor layton too). But I wasn’t even getting close to stuff like the illustrations on ccg cards. I tried rendering. Vertices, bezier curves, even raymarching. I tried AI diffusion.

              But only raymarching and AI diffusion allowed me to create results that were close to what I had imagined.

              • Water Bowl Slime@lemmygrad.ml
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                3 months ago

                Have you finished both trilogies yet? My favorite out of them all is Unwound/Lost Future. The ending still puts a lump in my throat even on repeat playthroughs.

                • m532@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  My favorite is (by far) the ace attorney crossover. So far even, that I couldn’t finish the next game I tried, as, whenever I picked it up, I thought “I’d rather play the crossover right now”

                  So I’ve only finished the first trilogy, town of wonders, and the crossover.

                  • Water Bowl Slime@lemmygrad.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    I love the crossover too. It’s my favorite ace attorney game because of how it’s structured. The rest of the franchise just kinda aimlessly meanders for the first few trials before patching together something thematic for the final case. I prefer how this one has a clear goal from the outset and it’s funny how witnesses openly conspire in court.

                    As for the rest of the Layton games, I’d say that the second trilogy is worse than the first so you’ll probably have a hard time finishing them. And don’t bother with katrielle’s mystery journey because that’s the worst of them all by a landslide. I heard that her anime’s ok though, but I’m not gonna watch it to verify.

        • Marat@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 months ago

          Really? I’m not wholly opposed to ai art but, yknow, that’s just basic common sense to label ai generated things as ai generated. I mean, China even requires it on their social media [https://cadeproject.org/updates/china-enforces-new-ai-content-identification-rules-starting-today/].

          Plus, if you want people to use ai for things like this, it’d be nice to know what model you used. You’re just being disrespectful for the sake of being disrespectful.

          • DornerStan@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            They’ve been very quick to discuss the methods and tools when people ask. They have multiple replies doing so in this thread.

            This isn’t an image or video claiming to be real, it’s illustrated. We aren’t being led to believe that’s actually Lenin lol, what would a disclaimer even accomplish?

            • Marat@lemmygrad.ml
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              3 months ago
              1. Sorry I didn’t find the few comments where he does say so. I didn’t see it in these 3 dozen comments on this post so I guess that’s on me, even though it doesn’t actually prove what i said wrong.

              2.Common courtesy. A simple “this art was generated using x program” in the post would have prevented this exchange we’re having now. And isn’t he expending the same, if not more, “brain power” replying to these comments as he would have if he had simply put it in the description of the post?

              1. If he had drawn the art himself then I would have the same problem with him not marking it as “oc” for clarity sake and then getting mad at someone who says “hey you should say it’s oc in the post.”
              • DornerStan@lemmygrad.ml
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                3 months ago

                Should we ask people to differentiate between analog and digital art? Should we ask people to post a disclaimer that they used machine-produced paint instead of harvesting it themself or buying it from an artisan?

                Are slop consumers entitled to a creation tutorial under every meme? Or can they just politely ask for information and have a conversation?

                OC as a disclaimer exists to differentiate self promotion on consumerist platforms. It doesn’t matter here, we don’t care about the intellectual property of memes or links.

                • Ozmanthius@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  disregarding everything else already discussed in the thread, not having an AI tag would be a weird and impractical line to draw, it is something that’s being increasingly pushed forward for in most social media apps, i for one wouldn’t want to engage with anything tainted by AI, and with how heated this thread is, I don’t see how its not controversial, it would be a simple thing to implement and would help not alienate people.

                • ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  Are slop consumers entitled to a creation tutorial under every meme? Or can they just politely ask for information and have a conversation?

                  You think people on the grad should be slop consumers?

                  • haui@lemmygrad.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    If they so decide they absolutely should, yes. That said, why does ai generate so much reactionary potential in those who usually are the most progressive of society? Its really beyond me that nobody seems to stop and look at theory for reconciliation of a longstanding issue.

                  • DornerStan@lemmygrad.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    If you have a problem with the idea that you might have to have a conversation with the human that posted something in order to get arbitrary details, then I’m afraid you might be a slop consumer.

                • Marat@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  I’m not asking for a creation tutorial under every meme. I’m literally just asking for the model/service as a basic thing you should put on there so people dont have to ask and the author doesnt have to answer, unless they want more in depth explanations, like you would with normal art. If you want me to treat ai art like any other art, then let me treat it with the same rules that I treat any other art with.

                  Also oc notices aren’t just for promotion. It’s a very basic question to ask “who made this.” So you can, yknow, see if they make/have made more and can enjoy more. In order to, yknow, see if they will make or have made more. So, just putting the author/oc answers that question without it being asked.

                  Youre just purposefully obfuscating and flanderizing the point quam absurdum, and I don’t feel like any more conversation on this topic is going to be productive.

                  • DornerStan@lemmygrad.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    Or you could just have a conversation with the human being who posted something if you have questions lol.

                    “This is cool! Did you make this?”

                    Friendly conversation ensues

                    Or would that interrupt scrolling?

                • The Free Penguin@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  This is a false comparison. With digital art there is still human creativity. The only thing resembling human creativity going into AI art is the prompt

                  • DornerStan@lemmygrad.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    Did this image create itself, or did a human have a concept and bring that concept to fruition? “AI” can’t think. It doesn’t know who Lenin is or why this poem is meaningful. That was a human thought.

                    If by “creativity” you just mean mechanical skill, then sure. If OP decided it was personally meaningful to spend a few hundred hours honing the skill to draw in this style and then a few hours manually drawing this meme, then that’s cool. If you want to bake a loaf of bread from scratch, that’s cool. It’ll even taste better than store bought! But as cool as hobbies like that may be, they aren’t leftist praxis.

                    It’s a weird feeling to see a value form get transformed by technology, I understand. But griping about it is unmaterialist.

                  • m532@lemmygrad.ml
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                    3 months ago

                    Bullshit

                    Edit: Okay maybe I just got angry. Do you want to know why? Its because the liberal establishment puts creativity on a pedestal. It says that those with lesser creativity are lesser humans.

                    Observe how radlibs claim that reactionaries are all uncreative. Or how westerners claim that easterners are all uncreative. What they actually want to do is dehumanize. Creativity, to them, is just another word for whiteness.

                    I think I have low creativity, but that’s not something that makes me less human.

                • İbo@lemmygrad.ml
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                  3 months ago

                  I came here to escape the r/defendingaiart NOT r/antiai!!! Even tho i dont like antiai that much BUT I HATE AI

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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            3 months ago

            I just don’t find that treating AI generated content as a special category is terribly useful. The case you point with China is around making sure people aren’t mislead into thinking something is real when it’s AI generated. Here I completely agree with labeling something that was rendered as opposed to real. And it doesn’t matter whether it was rendered by a model or in Blender or some other tool. If somebody asked what technique was used to make the image then that’s completely different discussion I would happily engage with.

            Also, most of the time I’m likely going to be sharing a meme I found somewhere, and I’m certainly not going to waste time scrutinizing it to see whether it was AI made or not.

        • The Free Penguin@lemmygrad.ml
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          3 months ago

          Wasting your brain power is when 1 sentence 💀
          This discussion is wasting more brain power than simply disclosing your stuff is AI generated

          • m532@lemmygrad.ml
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            3 months ago

            Did you always disclose how you made it whenever you made anything?

            Most memes don’t say how they’re made. Go to their pages, complain there too.