You’re living overseas and enjoying life in a new country but then something happens in that country that changes everything. Not talking about war, but maybe a public debate, a new politician on the scene, a recession, or an election. Something that flipped how you see your new home. For better or worse.
For me, living in Malaysia all was going smoothly. An amazing country. But when COVID hit, non-Malaysians really became a target. You had vaccines prioritised for Malaysians and the government using the pandemic as an excuse to round up illegal migrants to deport them. Instilling more fear at a time of fear.
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I moved to a German speaking country. For years I was in an international bubble due to studies. Now that I actually work and live with natives, I hate it and can’t wait to move.
For me: The Netherlands and how biased are recruiters. I knew finding a job would be hard but damn, never imagined the level of racism I would face
Australia during COVID had some of the craziest things like when Scomo announced that there would be a 60k fine or up to 6 mths jail term for any Australians returning from India. It was the ultimate “you can have an Aussie passport but you’ll never be Aussie if your skin colour is X” moment. I had been living in Australia for more than 2 decades and that was the most my glasses ever tinted
Scomo announced
Funny that the only things he did during the pandemic was trott himself out to be racist.
Left the real work to the states with one big shrug.
Given that being trans is kinda severely dangerous in Malaysia there’s a lot more than just vaxes to be scared of. Countries are all friendly as long as they want your money, but you are not one of them ever. It’s kinda sick how xenophobic the world has become in the past 30 years. It never was a great place but it’s kinda been ramped up now that the uber rich own so much more and people are having to fight harder for scraps.
Funny thing to say considering most tourist visas are way more relaxed than even 10 years ago with more and more countries extending 30 to 90 days free tourist visas. It’s a different thing to live and work in a country, but it’s possible if you have a contract. I don’t know where do you get that the world has gone worse in the last 30 years, my experience is quite the opposite, but I am only 40.
I prefer not to use rose-tinted glasses.
In any country, including my country of birth, unpredictable negatives events do happen. Such possibility is accepted as part of life.
For me - Australia- it was the storms.
Scared the shit of me-
Hail the size of golf balls, 160km wind/mini tornados, 60,000 lightening strikes per hour in the supercells. The trees falling on your house!
Gawd that sounds like fun!!! Wish I could go to Oz!
Do- it’s lovely… but only between May and September…LOL
Unfortunately I am not eligible to more than visit. No long term stay visas available that I qualify for
And snakes and spiders!
Don’t mind them.
The spiders are fury and cute.
And snakes mind their own business 😊
Don’t come to BC Canada. We have a whole season for storms like that
wildfires. Vancouver being unaffordable. Vancouverites main definition of Canadian being “not American”.
I’ve lived in BC for all my 68 years and have never seen a storm like that. But it is still advisable to stay away as there are housing and healthcare crises going on.
Not all at once but back to back added up over weeks, absolutely. Storms can stretch over days and really do a shitload of damage. We just forget because nobody bothers to do seasonal tallies anymore
Australia but for a completely different reason, social support. A few friends got very ill, one seriously injured and another had a serious mental breakdown and all were not eligible for any help. They had to drain their supers, savings and lean on friends and family and most ended up going back home because as non citizens they get nothing.
Medical care was decent to excellent but insanely expensive due to non citizen status. We’re not talking 50$ here were talking up to 1000$ per appointment as health insurers are pretty adept at playing games.
Think I’ll yeet myself outta here in a few years as I see this beginning to happen around me to citizens as well and I’d rather get going before anything bad happens with my family and I.
Oz is great for a try for a couple of years but I wouldn’t recommend long term though. Especially with kids and the education systems. Early education seems to be ok but secondary and higher is a nightmare.
This is an extremely I’ll informed statement.
Citizens and PR receive Medicare. Everyone else has to maintain their own private health insurance (as it should be imo). Additionally PR is fairly reasonable to get as a skilled worker in Australia. You can apply effectively right away if you meet their points requirements for high skilled workers.
Not all PRs do and are still required to carry private health insurance. Most take out minimum coverage which only covers hospital admittance and not general medical care like GPs. My local cheapest GP just hit 120$ per appointment and all bulk billing is 100km away.
Depending on your visa you can be forced to stay in very regional areas for 4 years or more. This limits access so services, jobs, schools and healthcare. I do not agree with how Australia treats various visa holders as some of the restrictions are bonkers.
I see this beginning to happen around me to citizens as well
I was going to say, it’s not a whole lot better for citizens. If you get really sick you will fight for years to get the disability pension which is still only $530/week. Most people on JobSeeker payment in Australia are sick, or, carers, or a combination and the payment is $375/week which is far below the poverty line.
Well aware. Im dual EU/AUS citizen so I’m eligible for full help and the comparison between me and my friends was noticable. Now its seems to be very little difference and I’m also astonished how badly New Zealanders were treated until recently and even now its not great.
I’ve got family in nearly every country around the world. In discussions, its those little things you never think of that concern us. I fully believe if you pay taxes you should be eligible for the same assistances and coverage as citizens but nope, not here.
The foundations are crumbling to the point a person (not a household) needs to be on 120k plus per year and rising to afford to be middle class. That is an insane bar and something is going to give.
Citizens and permanent residents are struggling to get in with mental health providers even when you can afford them. I’m in Adelaide and the public health system is a coin toss on quality. The ambulance wait times here are shocking. If it weren’t for my daughter I probably wouldn’t stick around Australia. The housing situation is only going to get worse and it’s beyond dreadful now seeing dual income families going to food banks and homeless shelters.
Colorado does this also with the hail and wind, but the hail gets get bigger. Those lighting strikes sound scary af!
I think the fact that we can live in other countries and make a living as a non-citizen is actually a privilege. And it’s one of those privileges that can be withdrawn when push comes to shove.
I see it as two-way. I pay taxes here, spend my money here. The least I expect for this, is not to be downgraded or targeted when things get a little tough, or if some politician likes to ramp up the nationalist narrative to get elected - which results in me being heckled in the street when minding my own business. I respect all citizens of the countries I’ve worked in, and their culture and norms. But that doesn’t mean I accept being abused because of some anomaly.
Look at it this way. You’re a guest in someone’s house. It’s nice you contribute to utilities, but that doesn’t make you the owner or part of the family. And when there is conflict in the family, you’re the first one expected to leave the house.
I pay taxes here, spend my money here.
You’ve paid taxes for a few years. The natives have done it their whole lives. Why would you expect to be their equal when it comes to getting those back? And why do you think going after people who’ve dodged every single checkpoint on their way in, broke the law to be there, is wrong, especially during a pandemic? People were having a hard time crossing borders legally, why would criminals be protected?
I’d argue that my country actually spent a shit ton subsidizing my education, and now I’ve brought my advanced post grad degree to their country where they get to benefit from my education without having had to best in ~20 years of costs to educate me.
Did you move for your host country’s benefit or for your own benefit?
That’s irrelevant. The only relevance is the cost-benefit analysis. It would cost them a lot of money to have someone educated to my level, and they don’t have to pay that. I cost their system very little and contribute a lot. They can drive me out, and it would cost them far more to replace me internally.
That’s irrelevant. The only relevance is the cost-benefit analysis.
No, it’s not. Because your benefit is what underpins the system. Everyone in a society pays taxes, so that everyone in that society can benefit. How you choose to benefit is irrelevant. If you base it on cost-benefit analysis you’d have a really shitty situation as it wouldn’t only impact emigrants. What would happen to children who are deemed too expensive to support for the potential benefit they can bring in? Taxes, healthcare, etc. are not based on cost-benefit, they are a social system that expects everyone to contribute for the sake of the society. If you aren’t a part of that society and haven’t yet met the contribution threshold, you don’t get the same benefit as those who did. Your view is very classist, prioritising rich over poor.
You seem to have the political understanding of a 15 year-old who spends a lot of time online around right-leaning liberals who say things you think are logical.
Short answer? Yes, I would. Legal migrants in my home country have as much right to health care as I would, and other social benefits. That goes from schooling to free access to museums. Equals.
Second point, I think if you’re trying to ensure a pandemic doesn’t spread, rounding up desperate people (who mostly flee persecution) to deport them, is going to make a bad situation worse. People will hide and won’t get vaccinated. Kinda obvious to me.
Equals.
So, how do you distribute limited supplies exactly?
Second point, I think if you’re trying to ensure a pandemic doesn’t spread, rounding up desperate people (who mostly flee persecution) to deport them, is going to make a bad situation worse. People will hide and won’t get vaccinated. Kinda obvious to me
As opposed to how all the criminals are usually out in the open, just going to government facilities and saying “I broke the law, vaccinate me”? Do you also think drug dealers shouldn’t be persecuted, because then they will hide their income and not pay taxes? Or do you think most criminals break the law for shits and giggles while only the illegal immigrants do it out of desperation?
Limited supply of health care? Guess you judge which person needs the treatment most and judge it based on condition not passport. Also, there was a good supply of vaccines at this point. Final point, back then, there was a need to vaccinate all or it wouldn’t work as intended. You ignore sections of society - yes, even criminals - and you won’t achieve your pandemic goals.
I’m not sure we’re comparing like for like on drug dealers and migrants brought in legally to work on construction sites, and when nobody is allowed outside during COVID, they have no work and no income, and they’re then rounded up when their visa runs out and are penniless. OR, desperate illegal migrants fleeing genocide in neighbouring countries, who were given safehaven pre-pandemic, but then pursued during.
No they haven’t. Not for first 18ish years of their lives, where a huge chunk of government spending per citizen is frontloaded.
That’s when their parents were paying taxes. Where were your parents’ taxes going?
How is that relevant? If you think that the taxes that your parents have paid have covered 100% of your mother’s birthing ward, parents’ paternity leave, your healthcare as a child, all the steps of your education, etc etc, you’re living in la-la-land.
How is that relevant?
Because that’s how it works and why citizenship by blood is the default in most countries.
If you think that the taxes that your parents have paid have covered 100% of your mother’s birthing ward, parents’ paternity leave, your healthcare as a child, all the steps of your education, etc etc, you’re living in la-la-land.
No, I live in a society. Part of it is that we take care of each other, no single person is expected to 100% pay for themselves, but everyone is expected to contribute based on their situation. It’s an agreement we’ve made long ago that extends to everyone our society is responsible for, regardless of their economic status. Just because you don’t like the agreements made by your society, doesn’t mean you are entitled to ours. Especially if you haven’t done your part to contribute. Once you have, you are often welcome to join in and benefit from it. If you choose not to, that’s also your right.
Your argument is “expats’ taxes do not contribute to society enough because natives have been paying taxes all their lives”. I’m saying that it is irrelevant, because expats have also not received a huge chunk of the benefits that natives receive. How your platitudes about living in a society are supposed to answer to that is beyond me.
Exactly. Countries spend a lot of money getting someone from birth to tax-paying employment. If you come in as a well-educated foreigner, you’re kind of a lucky catch. They don’t have to pay for your education, the first 20 years of your healthcare, they just get a whole readymade adult willing to work and pay taxes, plus they can withdraw your visa status if you do some sort of crime or become unemployed - they can’t do that with their own citizens. It’s basically the opposite of brain drain. Economically, educated expats are a great deal for a country.
When you leave you native country you should have the mindset knowing it will be different wherever you end up. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7KzTfwl5WaA&t=13s
What did other countries do as to prioritizing their own citizens first?
No real reason is needed to round up illegals for deportation.The glasses already weren’t rosy when this was happening, but knowing people whose family members were assaulted for being Asian during the pandemic, and seeing the desperate efforts of the white left to try and argue that they weren’t hate crimes, definitely made me dislike living in the US even more.
Lived in Bali for a year and realized that I never want to live in a country/state with earthquakes. Really wanted to try living in Japan but my fear of earthquakes is just too much even when they’re not strong the fact that you can’t predict them and when they start you never know how strong one will be is scary. We had a few days where we had multiple earthquakes each day and many were felt as in shaking the building roughly. Nothing bad happened but the stress of never knowing what’s going to hit and how strong it’ll be isn’t something I want to experience again. This time it was a 5.4 but next time it could very well be 7+.
If you live in a country with relatively decent building codes, 99% of quakes won’t be a big deal. A quake which could kill dozens of people in Bali wouldn’t interrupt dinner in Tokyo.
Yeah definitely there was a 5.6(something in the 5s) in Jakarta when we lived in Bali and 200 people died it kinda made me paranoid.
I think after a while especially like you said in a country with good building codes you get used to it but the first few times it’s really unsettling.
Mate, when was the last time Bali got hit by a major earthquake that killed lots of people? Not being flippant but compared to most of Indonesia, Bali is safe when it comes to earthquakes (as is the capital Jakarta)
I’m not specifically talking about Bali but more so that I realized I’d rather not live in a place with earthquakes. I grew up in countries/states where the biggest natural disaster was probably a snowstorm every once in a while. No tornados, barely any hail, barely any lightening. So to me it was quiet a shock the first time I experienced an earthquake. Keep in mind that this year new york state had a small earthquake 3.8 and my family there and everyone I knew were flipping out and panicking it was the first time they had ever felt an earthquake it was on the news and a huge deal.
In the future, I’d try and avoid settling in a country that is nestled within an area called the “Pacific Ring of Fire”
It was fun and I didn’t think it would really bother me that much until I experienced it 🙂 I am not sure why my experience seems to bother you. I knew Bali had earthquakes and from my experience there decided not to try and emigrate to a place with even stronger earthquakes. I’m sorry my fear of earthquakes bothers you. I loved Bali and the locals really treated my family kindly.
Same thing happened to foreigners in Korea. But it didn’t change anything for me. Ironically, the pandemic quarantine years were the best years of my life. I would 100% go back to 2020 if I had the chance. The world suffered, but I truly had a great time.
On the flip side, being harassed to the point of needing to relocate was what did it for me. I now have strong prejudice towards people who look like my attackers. I will most likely need therapy to get over it. And I would feel awkward talking to any Korean therapists about it because I know I’ll come across as racist if I share my true feelings. It sucks. I love Korea, but my harassment experience tainted everything, and it made me realize I’ll never be welcome here.
I am trying to get residency in Europe and the limitations on traveling were really hard on me. When COVID hit, I felt like the whole world stopped to support me in my wait.
You have to understand that I have been a nomad for 15 years, so staying in place is not in my DNA.
so you say that you are illegally in Malaysia?
That’s not what I wrote
For me it was the abortion thing out here in the states where I moved to from the UK.
I kind of knew some people were against it but I never thought they could actually take the service away. I have a really serious medical disorder and I made the decision to get sterilized (medical disorder means no hormonal birth control) because of it. Prior, I had thought I’d probably have kids one day but it did not appear to be safe for me anymore.
It worked out well for me because I enjoy the childfree life quite a bit. Just kind of shattered that illusion of the land of the free for me a bit. I mean the medical industry out here already prevents freedom quite a bit tbh. I want to get a new job but then I’d have to go without healthcare for months because of probationary bullshit.
Same. I cant stand it here anymore.
the USA is the consumer nation in the world. our consumption subsidizes many industries like pharma and tech. since its no longer affordable to reproduce here we opened up immigration and are doing things to avoid population decline
What state do you live in? Some blue states have abortion laws that are way more lax than most EU member countries.