The concept of virginity, particularly the idea that a woman’s sexual history somehow determines her worth, was heavily shaped by patriarchal societies that used women’s sexuality as a means of controlling inheritance, marriage, and political power.
The idea that an individual somehow becomes less of a person simply because she has had sex is absurd. A woman’s value does not diminish because someone has given her a label or because she has engaged in a perfectly ordinary human act.
And then there is the glaring double standard. The man who had sex with her is often treated as some kind of hero, while she is supposedly diminished by the exact same act. He gets the bragging rights and the high fives; she gets judged for it.
So apparently a man’s virginity is irrelevant, but a woman’s is supposed to be sacred. Not the person, mind you. The vagina.
What a load of crap.
Though look at the bright side: with that attitude still kinda prevalent, people who hold it are more likely to show their cards early. Holding importance in someone else’s virginity can be written off as toxic insecurity.
I read this comment as saying:
- Virginity isn’t special, so there’s no need to “save” it for someone special.
- The first person you have sex with doesn’t need to be anyone special. Holding out for some kind of perfect dude is impractical, because if you’re messing around with people your age, news flash, most young men are losers on the broader social scale. Being cool for a high schooler doesn’t mean much.
- Go ahead and fuck the dude with a cheap car and small dick. That’s not going to hold you back in the future, and chances are, your standards for partners will change over time.
- You can be anything. Overthrow the government.
It seems that this comment section focuses a bit too much on the less important parts of the message, and don’t appreciate the context.
My only problem with this post is the implied body-shaming. Otherwise 10/10
ITT
“Hey! No fair! I was a baby-dicked boy in a Honda Civic!”Yes, that was the point. To dress down hypermasculinity to reveal the real person you will be fucking, and then say “look honey, this dick can’t harm you existentially like all the messaging you ever received, threatened it would. It’s mostly harmless on its own. Go have fun.”
If you don’t like that the hypothetical image of the boy had to be declawed before the girl felt safe, help fix it.
Is this implying that a horse cocked boy whose daddy bought him a fancy car could be taking something? Or are we just shaming a body type and class for comedic effect?
I hope the joke is about calling out a sexist value judgement while engaging with sexist value judgements.
If his penis looks like a horse, it may be worth encouraging him to seek medical attention.
Is it not normal to have a penis sleeve that keeps it up in your body until you need/want it down to your knees?
Yea, just shaming a body type, and encouraging a terrible way of thinking.
Eh. Good message wrapped up in weird body shaming, class shaming, vaguely misandrist ‘rhetoric’.
This aint it. It’s close to it. They’re the same aisle. But it aint it.
If he’s a rich boy with a huge cock, he can have your special thing.
I’m also not convinced that teaching your kids that sex is a non event is a good idea either.
Also I’m confused about what’s wrong with the Honda civic, if you got one with all the optional extras it would be quite expensive, not that matters, but it’s just a weird vehicle to have chosen to indicate lack of money. Should have gone with something like a Nissan Micra, it would have still been the stupid take, but at least it would have made sense.
Civics catch a lot of strays due to the sheer number of them and how long those things last. The drive train can literally outlast the body work. So there are a whole lot of used Civics on the road being driven by “poor” people who can’t afford better.
A rusted-out civic is often driven by two type of people - poor people who can’t afford better, or multi-millionaires that won’t spend money on anything more than that.
Well poor is a pretty loose term these days so I’m unsure if it’d apply to me but my girl Gracy (2012 EX) has taken me across the country 3 times, been a makeshift tent after saving me from mountain lions and made me basically invisible to cops for her whole 360k miles, costing me nothing but oil, spark plugs, brake pads and a window regulator…and gas… When she dies I will drop a whole ass new engine in her with my own bare fukkin hands. They sure knew how to make em
I see it kinda the same way as anything else, say, riding a bicycle: something normal, that is likely going to be part of your life and that you’ll enjoy doing, but don’t really need to if you don’t want.
Sure you’ll remember your first bike fondly (or not) but you can have others and your most memorable memories are most likely from the trips you’ll take later.
tell us more about your damage, childless child.
Actual sex ed is, as usual, the answer to these kinds of situations. I’d guess way more critically so for the Civic boy than Pony’s daughter, since Pony seems open to actually discussing some shit with her daughter, especially if Civic boy actually gives a fuck about virginity.
…oh, and guillotine construction. Definitely don’t forget the guillotine construction.
Women: Lmao men with small penises are subhuman xddd
Also women: Why are men so insecure about their penis size
It’s just oozing through the cracks. You fooled them for a bit, but it always comes out, doesn’t it.
It’s the same woman?!
Based on my personal experience with misandry, yeah.
Not all women asking why are men e.g. insecure about penis size, are shaming men for their penis size. As most women aren’t misandrists.
But all women shaming men for e.g. penis size, turn around and ask why, and are really upset about misogyny, while happily engaging in misandry.
Some men do it too. Obviously.
I’ll have to defer to your experience, since I have never had a conversation of any significance with a woman openly shaming men for their penis size. We spin in different circles, I suspect.
Well, I said “e.g.” for a reason. Body shaming in general, but also stuff like pressuring/shaming men for rejecting sex.
I am not surprised by your response as that is what I hear a lot before I start to point at recent specific examples that people are familiar with.
But that conversation would be missing the point. The point is that people actively engaging in sexism are often very upset when the sexism turns against themselves and like to act as if their sexism is not the cause of e.g. insecurities. It is literally the most basic thing abusers (of the type) do.
Again obviously, most people who express concern, aren’t the abuser. But abusers like to act like they care before continuing abuse.
“Small penis” jokes are even fairly common even in places around Lemmy if you pay attention.
A common place to see them is in a instance such as @fuckcars. If a member says they saw a large pickup truck driving down the road today, at some point in the thread there will be comments about how the driver “must be compensating for something.” No one actually cares about the size beyond the phycological insult directed at the man.
Guys hear this insult a lot over their lives directed at men in general.
I’ve dwelt among the humans. Their entire culture is built around their penises. It’s funny to say they are small, it’s funny to say they are big. I’ve been at parties, where humans have held bottles, pencils, thermoses in front of themselves and called out “hey look at me! I’m Mr. so and so dick.” “I’ve got such and such for a penis.” I never saw it fail to get a laugh.
She’s extremely busy since the rest of us have no individual opinions or agency.
#NotAllWomen
This is far too radical.
The Honda Civic is a reliable car with a solid price point.
And my dick is a perfectly normal size according to my mother!
I love my Honda Civic!
That was 6 years ago now. How time flies. <3
Here’s the best feature a car can ever have.
Kitties on the dashboard screen!!
Here’s a more recent picture. One of the wheels had a valve stem hole that wasn’t in line with a lugnut hole, meaning the wheel covers wouldn’t fit. I bought an OEM wheel to replace it and put the wheel covers on, and it looks way better now.
143k? You’re gonna have to replace that thing in another 100k miles or so.
Here’s a snip of the odometer from my 1997 Prelude from four days ago. ;)
Do they really die that early? I thought civics were supposed to be simple and reliable
That first pic makes it look like a Subaru.
I have a Honda and love it too.
Don’t you mean a scubado?
I had an EG hatch back in the day, now a WRX. The Civic was more fun. The Subaru makes me feel grown up. Gotta do all these adult things like change the gearbox fluid when you’re actually supposed to, else the gearbox explodes like a dropped beer.
What model year is that? My dash looked nothing like that, but was way old, like 2012 or so.
It’s a 2012. It’s the first year of the 9th gen so yours would have been between 06-11. Not a lot of exterior differences between 2011 and 2012, but the instrument cluster did get a pretty radical overhaul.
Sometimes they’ll keep making the older gen of a popular model concurrently with the first run of the newer gen, so you’ll end up with a manufacture date in the new gen’s model year. I don’t know if this has happened with Civics specifically, but it seems likely given how common they are.
Mine was a 2012 as well, actually :) Didnt look like that tho :) probably different markets rather than either of us being wrong :)
Also model year and first registration date can and do differ and which one is used to say what year a car is, largely depends on where you’re from.
I traded up my civic for a bolt. It felt civic-minded. Cuz man i got the lemon.
Loved that civic, but zero regrets. This ev is way better.
Yeah, and my dick is big godamnit.
🎵Drive a Civic, drive a Civic🎵 (backup vocals) 🎶A car you caaan trust!🎶
I think Pony is speaking from experience. She must have had a bad time in that car.
Not the modern ones. They eat headgaskets for brekky and aren’t nearly cheap enough
A Ford Fiesta then
“I refuse to teach my daughter about virginity. I will instead teach her to judge a man by his car and penis size.”
That is essentially how I read this too, yes.
Just your typical, run-of-the-mill pseudo-feminist on the internet thinking she’s making a point while actually supporting the patriarchy by reinforcing its standards and expectations.
And also teaching her daughter to be careless about who she shares her body with, because “it isn’t special.” … Yeah, toxic men are going to love her for this…
Every heterosexual man who is comfortable with their masculinity and sexuality will, at some point in their life, want a dildo shoved up their ass - because that’s where the g-spot is.
Hate to break the news to you. But you opened up a thread for discussion, and inside it, you found discussion. You did actually ask for it.
Ever shove a pipe cleaner down your peehole?
You’re thinking of the P-Spot
He’s not taking, he’s giving her a ride on the dick and in the Honda civic. Focus on the giving not the taking.
Yes, he’s giving her a UTI.
I feel like this point could be made without insulting her daughter’s future partner
Yes. You can remove the exaggeration from jokes to turn them into statements and make a point.
If the “joke” was about “flat-chested women who can’t cook” not being “special,” then suddenly you might be more reluctant to defend it as “humor”…
If a joke is going to be offensive it should at least be funny
Oh right, negative stereotypes and shaming are fine if it’s for a joke
The point made in this joke is that the size of a manz boxers and bank account determine his worth.
According to the mom, if he pulled up in a Ferrari with a pringle can, her virginity as a concept would be relevant again.
That is what our patriarchy teaches us, is it not? That we must be providers and fertile to have value. It’s our role as men, no?
Are you saying it’s a valid argument because it’s in agreement with the patriarchy? Saying “the patriarchy teaches this” isn’t exactly a very good argument for “so we should accept it as valid and true”…
providing and fertilizing are good things. expensive cars are bad things.
Providing and fertilizing are options, neither good or bad. I agree with the rest of your statement.
Why would providing and fertilizing be good things?
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Will someone please think of the hypothetical children!
Or the Civic!
Imagine how he must feel
What a stupid take.
Virginity is special because it’s your first time doing something very intense, intimiate and potentially painful and overwhelming. You need it to be with someone who cares about you so they can make it a good experience. It’s not some victorian-purity BS, it’s actually practically sound.
Many of us get raped. Just look at the statistics. It’s not fucking special and pretending it is puts more value on it than it’s worth. Look at all the grown men that sit around with countdowns over young womens virginity and being legal.
Disagree, there is nothing special about virginity. I was 18 and horny, I just wanted to get some dick so I did.
It should at a minimum be with someone who also wants you to have fun too, but past that it’s not special at all.
It’s not special in some cosmic sense. You’re not losing a part of your soul.
But as the other dude said, you’re experiencing something very intense & intimate for the first time. That moment is significant for the vast majority of people.
I didn’t say that having sex with a new person for the first time isn’t special, I said there is nothing special about virginity itself. Sure I said it in a crass offhand way, but that was what I said.
Women are taught our virginity is this incredibly important special thing that needs to be held close and only given to that one special person. We are taught our virginity is so sacred that it must be cherished. This creates the idea that after a woman has sex for the first time, she is somehow broken or unclean. It creates a hierarchy of women who have lost their virginity and women who haven’t. You would not believe how many of my friends treated me like a slut because I lost my virginity to my boyfriend at the time, a guy I dated for over 2 years after. But because we were horny and fucked after dating for 2 weeks (something I brought up before him), that made me a whore. Just me though, not him, he got high fives from friends.
The point is, maybe we should stop teaching people that women’s virginity is sacred and teach them about how to have safe sex instead. Perhaps if we taught people about safe and healthy sex as a natural activity that many people engage in, young virgin girls wouldn’t be something that adult men thirst so hard for.
Notice it’s only women’s virginity that is held to this standard, not men’s virginity. Whether you like it or not, putting women’s virginity on a pedestal the way people do, it’s perpetuating purity culture and patriarchy. It’s another to see women as lesser than men.
I feel like that moment is pretty insignificant to most young girls.
I mean I’m a guy but that doesn’t match what literally any girl in my life has ever said.
They pretty much all share a similar story about them being extremely nervous and it being uncomfortable awkward sex. No one described it as “magical” and also no one described it as “just another Wednesday”.
And when women, like me, admit it was nothing special, we are shamed. The example is all the men trying to convince me that I’m wrong about virginity or that I’m some special case because I wasn’t traumatized.
You are conflating two different things. The post is about virginity being “significant” but your position seems to be more about your first sex being “especially good” which is not what any person ever claims.
Also no one is shaming you in this thread. I guess maybe you had bad experiences elsewhere? There is nothing shameful with not caring about your virginity but that isn’t a common position.
The very first comment I replied to opened with a man stating “What a stupid take” because a woman said she is going to teach her daughter that virginity is not some special thing that a boy can take away from her. The first comment mentions that it “needs to be with someone special”, that is putting virginity on a pedestal. It should be with someone who isn’t an asshole and wants you to have fun too sure, but they don’t need to be special. Young folks should be educated on how to have safe sex and make it fun, if they choose to have sex at all.
I am being told in comments that I am some special case or an outlier, using anecdotal data btw, because I am a woman who was not traumatized my first time having sex and I am saying sex is just sex. Even first time having sex is still just sex. And it’s always women’s virginity that gets treated this way, never men’s virginity. Men get a high five when they fuck for the first time, women get treated like we are sluts. Like there is something special about virgin women.
Treating virginity as something to be treasured that someone can take from you is exactly why women feel shamed for enjoying sex. It’s perpetuating purity culture and the idea that women are wrong because we also enjoy fucking.
Maybe my position should be more common.
Yeah that makes you somewhat of an outlier. Most are below 18 and want it to be with someone they care about
But i think that’s exactly the point being made, there shouldn’t be that much pressure on it because it is very often disappointing. Building it up in your head as a moment that will define you often has no benefit to your life.
Bible shaggers will disagree for obvious reasons, but nobody is going to them for measured romantic and sexual advice.
Have sex when you feel ready. Make it special if you want to. No need to make it an implicit societal pressure.
It’s disappointing because we don’t talk more about what it should be like. We don’t expect men to do better about it. If someone had taught me how important it was and what things were at stake for women’s first time, I’d have done it a lot differently.
Many women, if not nearly all, carry trauma from their first time as well.
It should be talked about, in that we agree. Sex ed should include what to do, what to expect, and how to have fun as well as protecting oneself.
I am also a woman and I have no trauma from my first time. It was with my bf at the time, but it still wasn’t anything special.
Unfortunately the fact that it wasn’t traumatizing is pretty special, you just never needed to find that out fortunately
I would like a source on most if not all women experience trauma from losing their virginity. Because my experience really isn’t that special.
It was fumbling, silly, nervous, sure. But not traumatic.
I think thats exactly why this sentiment is being fielded.
It allows a separation from what can easily be a less than pleasant experience that society often puts a lot of pressure on.
That actually makes it worse. Trauma is healed by being acknowledged, not trivialized.
Consider the consequences of associating what you consider a defining moment of your sexual identity with trauma, forever.
Consider then, a mindset where that moment does not define your sexual identity.
In which scenario would you expect to feel better.
What you’re saying is how to deal with an event after it happens, the topic here is how to shape your expectations before the event, to avoid a worse fallout. Regardless of how negative the experience is.
Again, disagree. The average is not much younger than I was, 17 is closer to average (at least in the US). And I didn’t say it shouldn’t be with someone you care about, I said, there is nothing special about virginity.
First times of everything is considered special throughout all cultures, it goes without say that the more intense and intimate the more special.
I’m not going to argue with another woman just because I disagree, just know that I’m not that much of an outlier and virginity doesn’t have to be some special thing. It’s just penis in vagina or other variations of genitals that one’s satisfy sexual orientation. Not all women carry trauma from the first time having sex, I carry no trauma other than he couldn’t finish because he was nervous.
If we stop treating it like it’s something special and instead as a natural part of life, maybe people can talk about it more openly instead of treating it like it’s a taboo subject.
Edit: I mistakenly assumed this guy was a woman because I misread one of his comments. The rest of my statement still stands.
I’m happy to hear that for you.
I don’t know a single woman who’s not been traumatized by their first time.
And I know plenty who haven’t been traumatized. Anecdotes aren’t evidence.
Edit: I don’t think you’ve talked to very many women if you’ve never met a single woman who wasn’t traumatized after having sex for the first time.
What if you weren’t lucky enough to have that experience though?
It’s not worth a life-time of disappointment and self loathing.
Maybe the message ought to be about caution around sex generally rather than a single experience.
You can teach a concept and encourage teenagers to have some care about their first time without heaping any shame on them.
Virginity is special because it’s your first time doing something very intense, intimiate and potentially painful and overwhelming.
Why doesn’t karaoke get the same special category?
You need it to be with someone who cares about you so they can make it a good experience
Nah. Can help. Can hurt. Not a requirement.
How intimate are your karaoke sessions?
Because in karaoke your genital orifice is not penetrated by a foreign object for the first time
Karaoke is way more intense than sex if we’re being honest. Like the vast majority of people lose their virginity all on their own with no financial incentive, but a huge chunk of people wouldn’t sing karaoke ever, even if you offered them like ten bucks
Karaoke is not a comparable situation regardless
Seems like it has been compared just fine!
well now you tell me.
Lmao
So? Why should sex be special cased?
Clearly not because
it’s your first time doing something very intense, intimiate and potentially painful and overwhelming.
because then we’d have karaoke virginity too. And many other things.
So for you karaoke and being internally penetrated is similar, that’s fine. But I’m assuming you have the command of your senses to realize that this is not a normal point of view, peobably not a healthy one either.
Similar in that they can both be, your words, “intense, intimiate and potentially painful and overwhelming.”.
I’m going to argue that the “normal” point of view that holds losing your virginity as a big fucking deal (pun intended) is in fact unhealthy. It’s often bundled up with patriarchy. It really doesn’t need to have all the brouhaha. That creates a lot of misery and hangups.
You’re not proving that it should be a special case. You’re just acting like it’s self evident.
Incidentally,
You need it to be with someone who cares about you so they can make it a good experience
Also applies to karaoke.
So I don’t believe you when you say
It’s not some victorian-purity BS,
Yeah, go tell sone of your female friends in real life that karaoke is comparable to their first time.
I’m sure you will, because they’re totally comparable and you’re not a troll, right?
I’ll wait for your screenshot showing how they reacted.
No further replies until then.
Woman friend 1 said that it’s personal and for some people it’s a big deal, and not for others. Sex is unique in a lot of ways. She didn’t outright reject the karaoke comparison, but did emphasize that different people have different experiences and attach different meaning to it. She didn’t reject the comparison, but didn’t especially love it. Treating sex as meaningless has its own perils, she said n
Woman friend 2 reached for “like doing LSD or mushrooms for the first time” rather than karaoke, but didn’t reject the comparison.
Both reject purity culture and the idea of virginity as something you lose, and rejected your take from your top post.
I’m not going to post screenshots because the conversations had a lot of personal details.
Quit fucking speaking for women. Just fucking stop.
You’re doing a bad job of arguing. You made a claim. I offered a trivial counter. You’re not updating your claim. You’re just saying “nuh-uh”.
You could try arguing that the degree is different, but as someone said that’s not true for everyone. Some people are really casual about sex! From the start! And some people would never, ever, do karaoke.
Even if you were factually correct (you are not) your argument is structurally unsound.
I’ll see what my friends say in the morning
Let’s smash the patriarchy without classist bullshit. The implication here is that only a man with an expensive car could possibly be taken seriously as a romantic partner.
This is typical american carbrain shit. Is there any other country where the kind of car someone drives is even a consideration in choosing a romantic partner? I’m dating your car.
Well the US is definitely the only country in the world where everyone’s obsessed with the iPhone and the whole blue vs green text bubble.
All due respect, I’m not getting that impression at all. In context it feels more like saying, “Virginity is bullshit, don’t save yourself for Prince Charming–go ahead and fuck the Civic owner with the small dick, you can’t lose anything by it!”
As if anyone learns about the concept from their mom anyway.
